D&D 5E Escapist article on SCAG is Brutal.

[delericho]

There was a podcost/audio interview with Mike Mearls where he said that all future character options would come in thematic books.

Careful now: was it all such character options, or was it a general policy that this would usually be the case? Because he's made similar statements before (regarding psionics material), but that was about what they would do - it stopped short of saying they definitely wouldn't do anything.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm really not seeing this "lack of focus" people keep talking about. It's a player's guide. Pure and simple. It does what its predecessors - the Forgotten Realms Adventures, Player's Guide to Faerûn and Forgotten Realms Player's Guide - did: namely, provide players with a decent primer for the setting, an update on any changes for the new edition, and some new thematically-appropriate character options. If the SCAG is "unfocused", then so were all those other books with a mix of player-friendly fluff and crunch in them.

It could be much better as a player's guide. It's main flaw there is that its structure is outside-in, not inside-out: it talks about the setting in broad sweeps before it digs down to what individual characters know.

From pages 9-43, it's not even very concerned with the Sword Coast itself, the putative origin of any character you'd be wanting to use with the guide for Sword Coast adventurers. It's not long before the book starts hurling Random Noun Salad at the reader (what's a Chosen? Where's Cult on these maps? The Great Sea? The Sea of Fallen Stars? Why are you talking about them before you talk about Neverwinter and Baldur's Gate if they're not really things my character is concerned about?), and that's right before the Wall of Gods, which is going to produce about 2-3 useful paragraphs for any individual character (and mostly just clerics).

In the Races chapter, we start getting some boots-on-the-ground character perspective, but the mechanics section isn't really well-connected to the previous sections. Like, say I want to be a Deep Gnome - why no reference to deep gnome cities or civilzations? Potential backgrounds? Classes I might want to consider for a good Deep Gnome experience?

Again, IMO, this doesn't make the book bad, and I'm not really comparing it to previous guides, it just could be much better at inspiring me to play a Sword Coast Adventurer and giving that Adventurer a reason to exist and care about the Sword Coast. That's kind of why I agree with the review: this book is OK. It's not GREAT, but it's OK. It's got some awesome bits and some bits that aren't so strong. As a player's guide, it could be significantly better.

 

[garnuk]

Careful now: was it all such character options, or was it a general policy that this would usually be the case? Because he's made similar statements before (regarding psionics material), but that was about what they would do - it stopped short of saying they definitely wouldn't do anything.

Pretty sure it was a statement that they would only put out new character options with setting books and/or free online articles.

 

[garnuk]

It could be much better as a player's guide. It's main flaw there is that its structure is outside-in, not inside-out: it talks about the setting in broad sweeps before it digs down to what individual characters know.

From pages 9-43, it's not even very concerned with the Sword Coast itself, the putative origin of any character you'd be wanting to use with the guide for Sword Coast adventurers. It's not long before the book starts hurling Random Noun Salad at the reader (what's a Chosen? Where's Cult on these maps? The Great Sea? The Sea of Fallen Stars? Why are you talking about them before you talk about Neverwinter and Baldur's Gate if they're not really things my character is concerned about?), and that's right before the Wall of Gods, which is going to produce about 2-3 useful paragraphs for any individual character (and mostly just clerics).

I was actually really impressed with how the divine descriptions were applicable to all characters, they even explain why a perfectly good hero might get drawn to an evil deity.

Also, I haven't finished the book yet, I'm only on page 50, but so far the greater world perspective helps me better understand how my character fits or wouldn't fit in sword coast. As in, "Oh, if I wanted to make an Elf focused on herding animals, I know where to set their home town."

 

[delericho]

Pretty sure it was a statement that they would only put out new character options with setting books and/or free online articles.

Fair enough. If that is indeed the case, I stand corrected.

 

[Hussar]

You can, of course, provides citations for them saying we're not getting class splatbooks or books of new spells?

Others have answered this, but, I'd point to the fact that in the past year, since the release of the core books, we have two modules and one SCAG. There seems to be no movement at all towards releasing a class/spell book, and I can't imagine why they would. Far, far better to dribble and drab that sort of thing across a bunch of supplements, drawing it out for years, just to entice more people to buy a book.

How many people are buying SCAG because of the Realms material and how many are buying it for the class material? By wedding fluff and crunch books together, and not relegating books to tiny niche ghettos (buy this book if you want to play one of the ten or fifteen base classes!!!), they're much more likely to gain broader appeal.

 

[delericho]

Others have answered this, but, I'd point to the fact that in the past year, since the release of the core books, we have two modules and one SCAG. There seems to be no movement at all towards releasing a class/spell book, and I can't imagine why they would.

Sure, I agree that that's where the signs are pointing. And I agree that it's a sensible strategy. It was the "absolutely clear" I was querying, because there's a gap between "they haven't done it after eighteen months" and "they've ruled it out".

How many people are buying SCAG because of the Realms material and how many are buying it for the class material?

No idea. But then: how do sales of the SCAG compare with, say, "Complete Warrior"? We know they want to sell 100k units (actually, more), but we don't know how their actual sales measure up.

 

[Hussar]

Sure, I agree that that's where the signs are pointing. And I agree that it's a sensible strategy. It was the "absolutely clear" I was querying, because there's a gap between "they haven't done it after eighteen months" and "they've ruled it out".



No idea. But then: how do sales of the SCAG compare with, say, "Complete Warrior"? We know they want to sell 100k units (actually, more), but we don't know how their actual sales measure up.

Fair enough. But, we do know what their strategy is. And their strategy is that they aren't going to put a lot of books on the market and the ones they do are intended to have the broadest appeal possible. Which means, by and large, fairly fluff heavy books that don't have tons of crunch because they don't want to run into the wall of crunch that drives people away. Few people leave the game, apparently, because there's "too much" setting information. I've never seen someone blow a gasket because WotC spent too much time describing some city.

But, I have seen extended rows over mechanics that go on and on and on.

In any case, because we do know what their strategy is - why is anyone actually surprised by this book. Ok, the map scales got cut off and that's amateur hour crap. Shouldn't happen and WOTC should be bending over backwards to make good on that. But, they did include, what, six new sub classes, so, it's not like there's a shortage. Is the material too high altitude? I dunno, this book isn't for me.

But, "this book isn't for me" does not equal "this book is bad". I just wish people would be more willing to see that.

 

[delericho]

Fair enough. But, we do know what their strategy is. And their strategy is that they aren't going to put a lot of books on the market and the ones they do are intended to have the broadest appeal possible.

Again, agreed. I'd just be surprised if they explicitly rule things out, in case their strategy changes - the better to avoid the "but you promised..." complaints. (Subject, of course, to my previous caveat that of course they'll get the complaints regardless...)

(Of course, one of the reasons I try to be careful about what they have and haven't said is that I got badly caught out by that once before: the whole "we're not working on a 4e that requires minis" thing.)

Few people leave the game, apparently, because there's "too much" setting information.

Wasn't one of the justifications for the 4e approach to the Realms exactly that - that the sheer volume of accumulated lore had become a barrier to entry for too many people?

But, "this book isn't for me" does not equal "this book is bad". I just wish people would be more willing to see that.

Yeah, I agree. It does get quite tiresome seeing the same complaints coming whatever they choose to do.

 

[Jester David]

Wasn't one of the justifications for the 4e approach to the Realms exactly that - that the sheer volume of accumulated lore had become a barrier to entry for too many people?

That was the thought.
People didn't like all the available lore, so they radically changed the world. People didn't like all the high level NPCs, so they advanced the timeline and killed most. People didn't like the crazy number of gods, so they removed most of the side pantheons. Etc.

But removing the lore didn't bring waves of people into the Realms. The people who complained didn't stop. And all it did was alienate the fans of the old Realms.
People dismissing the Realms for having too much lore is really an excuse. They don't want ti get into the Realms so they say that. The problem is more players knowing more setting lore than the DM and contradicting them, which is a problem that can't be solved by WotC.

All books sell for a very short time unless you have a sudden surge from word of mouth. That's the entertainment market in general. The initial sales has to meet the target or the project likely won't be deemed a success. Class books are popular with a much larger segment of the audience. It would be odd for them to make a the usual amount covering the different classes given the money makers they usually are in a tabletop RPG game cycle.

Some books continue to sell well after their release. Core Rulebooks and the first big accessory. For Pathfinder, the Advanced Class Guide still pops up on Amazon and Paizo's top charts every so often. That's what you want: continued and sustained small sales.
Splatbooks appeal to a minority of the audience. The majority of people who bought a PHB will not buy a splatbook. Arguably majority of gaming groups might (eventually) buy a splatbook, but which splatbook varies depending on their needs. The more options there are, the more you're spacing out sales and effectively competing with yourself. And even the people who do buy multiple splatbooks will eventually stop buying. There's a finite number of accessories any one gamer will buy: each time you release a new splatbook, odds are it will sell fewer copies than the preceding book. After enough releases, you're unable to sell enough copies.