D&D 5E I just don't see why they even bothered with the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

[garnuk]

I'm really not following your argument.

Lets say that every new game, book, or toy* is funded by Kickstarter. Lets say that consumers have found that using Kickstarter is the best method they have of purchasing items for their entertainment, and manufacturers have decided that trying to send their products to stores instead of directly to the customer isn't cost effective. And lets further posit, that collecting enough money for one and only one edition of their product is more cost effective as they move on to their next kickstarter project.

Are you arguing that this will have no effect on retail stores at all?


*For example, to increase the rarity of cards for MTG, WOTC decides that each new deck series will only be released by first having funding from kickstarter participants, and only those who bought the cards during that campaign will have access to them.

 

[Parmandur]

Is it conjecture that WOTC not doing Kickstarter, and WOTC being a booster of local retailers who sell Magic cards might be related?

Yes. That is conjecture.

But ask a retailer sometime, or look at how well the retailer pledge levels for game Kickstarters do (anemic, mainly).

 

[Alzrius]

Is it conjecture that WOTC not doing Kickstarter, and WOTC being a booster of local retailers who sell Magic cards might be related?

Yes. That is conjecture.

This is the important thing to have established.

But ask a retailer sometime, or look at how well the retailer pledge levels for game Kickstarters do (anemic, mainly).

You're implying that retailers have specific knowledge regarding who among their customers uses Kickstarter, what Kickstarters they've backed, and how much money they've pledged to them? Because that would make it much more frightening when the guy behind the counter is giving you the stink-eye!

 

[Remathilis]

For example, I backed the Primeval Thule Kickstarter. Cool, now I've got a nifty new setting and about five modules and other goodies. Why would I go out and buy the, for example, Sword Coast Adventurers Guide? It's not going to help my PT campaign. So, I would argue that it does create fairly direct competition.

Now, I want you to repeat this over and over again whenever you (or someone else) complains the next AP or sourcebook is set in the Forgotten Realms and not Eberron, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, etc...

 

[Mirtek]

You don't seem to realize that you're the one who has confused the issue by thinking that Kickstarter is at all "closer" to direct competition. In fact, that's not the case at all.

but it is. With kickstarter wotc is directly selling to the endcustomer, circumventing all their retailers whether B&N, Amazon or the FLGS

. Most Kickstarters have reward pledges that do not include a copy of the final product,

and the vast majority of backers isn't chosing this levels.

In reality kickstarter is nothing but good old pre-ordering, with the added risk if maybe not getting the product.

That may not be the theory behind kickstarter, but that is how it's used in pratice by the backers

 

[Alzrius]

but it is. With kickstarter wotc is directly selling to the endcustomer, circumventing all their retailers whether B&N, Amazon or the FLGS

No, they're not. Kickstarter doesn't "sell" anything. It's a funding platform, not a retail outlet.

and the vast majority of backers isn't chosing this levels.

That's not the point; the point is that having people pledge money is the central feature of Kickstarter, and that they knowingly do so for no (or other) rewards while using their main mechanism undercuts the entire "they're a retailer" argument. Retailers sell stuff; Kickstarter drives might offer a copy of what they're trying to finance the creation of in exchange for a certain level of funding, but that's an extra, it's not an inherent part of the deal.

In reality kickstarter is nothing but good old pre-ordering, with the added risk if maybe not getting the product.

That may not be the theory behind kickstarter, but that is how it's used in pratice by the backers

Just because people treat it as pre-ordering doesn't mean that it is pre-ordering; that fundamental misunderstanding is the source of a lot of the acrimony that people have for Kickstarter as a platform. If you think it's supposed to do X, you'll be upset when it does Y instead.

 

[Mirtek]

No, they're not. Kickstarter doesn't "sell" anything. It's a funding platform, not a retail outlet.

for all that matters it is nothing but a retail outlet

That's not the point; the point is that having people pledge money is a central feature of Kickstarter, and that they knowingly do so for no (or other) rewards while using their main mechanism undercuts the entire "they're a retailer" argument.

if >95% do it for the finished product, it' nothing but good old pre-ordering (with added risk for the endcustomer)

Just because people treat it as pre-ordering doesn't mean that it is pre-ordering;

if the vast, vast majority treats it that way it is

hat fundamental misunderstanding is the source of a lot of the acrimony that people have for Kickstarter as a platform. If you think it's supposed to do X, you'll be upset when it does Y instead.

And that describes your Problem it's supposed to be for funding, yet it's overwhelmingly used for pre-ordering.

If not for kickstarter most products would have to get fone the old fashioned way if finding real Investors and then stores willing to carry the product.

Few kickstarter projects by companies would not exist without KS, they are just mis-using KS for cheap capital

It's not realizing stuff that would mit be done otherwise, it's boosting ROI because one can

 

[Alzrius]

for all that matters it is nothing but a retail outlet

Insisting that an apple is an orange does not make it an orange, even if you say "it's sweet and juicy and good for you; for all that matters it's an orange."

if >95% do it for the finished product, it' nothing but good old pre-ordering (with added risk for the endcustomer)

Leaving aside the made-up statistic, why they do it doesn't matter. Personal motivations or intent don't change a fund-raising platform into a retail outlet.

if the vast, vast majority treats it that way it is

No, it's not. Personal perception, even if popularized, does not change the nature of how a particular model functions; it just means that the perception is wrong.

And that describes your Problem it's supposed to be for funding, yet it's overwhelmingly used for pre-ordering.

Actually, your Problem (capital "P," apparently) is that it can only be used for funding, and never for pre-orders. There's no "supposed to" about it. You literally cannot make a pre-order on Kickstarter; you can only choose to receive an optional reward for helping to fund something's creation.

If not for kickstarter most products would have to get fone the old fashioned way if finding real Investors and then stores willing to carry the product.

This is supposition that you have absolutely no basis for making. You don't know that most of those products would exist otherwise. Likewise, you don't know that if they did they'd have found their way into stores. Not to mention that you're overlooking the fact that some Kickstarted products do then find their way into stores, which wouldn't have happened if they hadn't been financed via crowd-funding.

Few kickstarter projects by companies would not exist without KS, they are just mis-using KS for cheap capital

It's not realizing stuff that would mit be done otherwise, it's boosting ROI because one can

Presenting personal opinions as facts does not make them facts; this gets back into that whole "there's a difference between perception and reality" thing I mentioned earlier.

 

[Mirtek]

Insisting that an apple is an orange does not make it an orange, even if you say "it's sweet and juicy and good for you; for all that matters it's an orange."

and if the Apple seed you intended to plant turns out as an orange tree, you can stamp your foot all you want, it won't grow apples.

If i "pledge" 50€ for something to "fund" it and and receive the finished product for it, then i've simply pre-ordered.

Where do you think this has to show up for the company under IFRS? Not where funds from investors would show, it's taxable income

 

[garnuk]

Is everyone in this conversation aware that kickstarter had to remove the option for retail store to pledge to gain bulk orders?