An alternative to Fixed Racial Ability Scores Modifiers for Non-humans?

[Delazar]

Premise (long-ish...): Recently I went for an AL game, didn't know anyone at the table in advance. We were three halfling rogues, and two high elves wizards... I confess, I was one of the high elves.

I've been playing 5E since it came out, and before that I played all editions of the game. With time, I've grown to dislike fixed racial ability scores modifiers. Somehow, when I DM or play, somewhere there's always a halfling rogue, or a high elf wizard, or a wood elf ranger, or a half-orc barbarian.

Sure, I could blame it on min-maxing, but somehow I don't think it's "wrong" to go for the race that is more advantageous for your class. Especially among new players, I've noticed that they first choose their class, and then when they have to choose their race, they ask me "ok, which one gives me a bonus to X?" with X being the Ability Score most need for their class. I guess it's only natural to want to be good at what you've set yourself to do.

It's just that, unless you have a lot of different races in your campaign, there's always going to be that one race that does the job better. Plus humans...

TL/DR: I was thinking of getting rid of fixed racial ability scores modifiers, and I was looking for some suggestions.

A few options I was toying with:
1) Ability Scores Modifier are not fixed. A +2 Con / +1 Wis becomes +2 X / +1 Y.
2) Ability Scores Mods are not tied to race, but to class. Thinking of linking this to the two Ability Score where you have Saving Throw proficiency. So for example, being a Wizard will give you Int +2, Wis +1.
3) No more Ability Scores mods, but more points for starting ability scores. Instead of 8,10,12,13,14,15, would be 8,10,12,13,15,17.

Let's discuss!

 

[delericho]

I've been playing 5E since it came out, and before that I played all editions of the game. With time, I've grown to dislike fixed racial ability scores modifiers.

Sure, I could blame it on min-maxing, but somehow I don't think it's "wrong" to go for the race that is more advantageous for your class. Especially among new players, I've noticed that they first choose their class, and then when they have to choose their race, they ask me "ok, which one gives me a bonus to X?" with X being the Ability Score most need for their class.

Yep, I've come to dislike these, for exactly the reason you give.

TL/DR: I was thinking of getting rid of fixed racial ability scores modifiers, and I was looking for some suggestions.

My preferred solution, pre-5e, was simply to get rid of ability scores by race entirely. If a player thinks halflings should be nimble but not strong, he can do this by assigning high Dex and low Str... but if he thinks his halfling is exceptional then he can assign the stats differently to reflect that, too.

But 5e didn't go that way (obviously). Thus far, I haven't considered changing it.

A few options I was toying with:
3) No more Ability Scores mods, but more points for starting ability scores. Instead of 8,10,12,13,14,15, would be 8,10,12,13,15,17.

Of the three, this would be my preferred option, especially if you're mandating point buy anyway.

 

[SheckyS]

I think this would be an interesting experiment, but there are actually good reasons to have certain races to be inherently better at certain classes.

If you are adventuring, and you run into a Dwarven Cleric, a Halfling Rogue, a DragonBorn Fighter, and an Elven Wizard, you don't think much of it. But if you run into a Dwarven Wizard, an Elven Cleric, a Halfling Fighter, and a Dragonborn Rogue, you are going to remember that group.

Having specific ability score modifiers by race tends to push players into making certain stereotypical combinations. But those stereotypes aren't all bad. It creates a system where those who want to do so can create something truly unusual and different.

Which is not to say that your idea is a bad one. I'm just saying that there are down sides to a world in which any race can be anything. If you did away with the ability score bonuses and essentially created a game in which any character could play any race with any class without any consequences, then all of those strange and wonderful combinations suddenly cease to be strange and wonderful. They are just commonplace.

If everyone is special, then no one is.

 

[Delazar]

I partially agree with you, but I don't think that the Ability Scores make you "special". I think the way you present yourself does.

What Racial Ability Scores modifier do now, is just to funnel those that don't have a clear idea into a stereotype.

 

[delericho]

Having specific ability score modifiers by race tends to push players into making certain stereotypical combinations.

The problem with this is exactly as the OP says, though - very often the player chooses class first and then picks the race purely because of the ability score mods. Such a player has no interest whatsoever in playing an Elf (or a Half-orc, or a Dragonborn, or whatever), but they want to be a Wizard and the Elf gives an Int bonus, so there it is.

It got particularly bad with 3e, where it seemed the game had "an elf for every class", and so players picked the class and then looked around for which variety of elf gave just the right set of modifiers.

My preference (and I appreciate that yours may well vary) would be for players to choose their race because they were interested in playing an Elf (or Dwarf, or Dragonborn, or whatever), and not because that happens to be the optimal choice for their class. And, indeed, if they don't come to the table with a clear notion that they want to be a particular non-human race, I'd prefer them to play a human.

 

[Afrodyte]

This is a great idea, and it's something I'd like to try with a group that's open to tweaking and experimentation.

But I do like the idea of doing something with races and ability score increases. So the idea I hit on is this: boost the ability score maximum according to race. Something off the top of my head:

• Human: Any one ability score maximum 22.
• Elf: Dexterity and Wisdom maximum 22.
• Dwarf: Strength and Constitution maximum 22.
• Halfling: Dexterity and Charisma maximum 22.
• Half-Elf: Charisma and any one ability score maximum 22.
• Gnome: Constitution and Intelligence maximum 22.
• Tiefling: Intelligence and Charisma maximum 22.
• Dragonborn: Strength and Charisma maximum 22.

Of course, this doesn't account for subraces, so YMMV.

Or, if you want to give PCs more oomph from the get-go, give ability adjustments based on race and class. But that might just compound the problem you're looking at.

 

[delericho]

But I do like the idea of doing something with races and ability score increases. So the idea I hit on is this: boost the ability score maximum according to race.

Sadly, I doubt that that would really help. Back when I played with a serious (though not terribly effective) power-gamer, the ability score mods were the thing he'd look at when choosing a race. Changing the parameters from "you get +2 Str" to "your max Str goes up by 2" would probably have just made him double down on his choice - he'd be aiming to get to the maximum anyway, and if the max is now 22 instead of 20, that's actually better than the case where he starts two points closer.

I hate to say it, but if you want some mechanical means* to encourage PCs to stick to favoured classes, something like Pathfinder's favoured class mechanic (+1 hit point or skill point per level in the FC) may be the way to go. Or, indeed, you could grant races an exception to the prerequisites for multiclassing into/out of their favoured class.

* Weaker than the ability score mods, of course - if you're happy to use them, then it doesn't really matter.

 

[SheckyS]

The problem with this is exactly as the OP says, though - very often the player chooses class first and then picks the race purely because of the ability score mods. Such a player has no interest whatsoever in playing an Elf (or a Half-orc, or a Dragonborn, or whatever), but they want to be a Wizard and the Elf gives an Int bonus, so there it is.

It got particularly bad with 3e, where it seemed the game had "an elf for every class", and so players picked the class and then looked around for which variety of elf gave just the right set of modifiers.

My preference (and I appreciate that yours may well vary) would be for players to choose their race because they were interested in playing an Elf (or Dwarf, or Dragonborn, or whatever), and not because that happens to be the optimal choice for their class. And, indeed, if they don't come to the table with a clear notion that they want to be a particular non-human race, I'd prefer them to play a human.

Yeah, I get all that. My point is that Halfling Rogues are common and they are common for a reason and the fact that they are common means that you can make your character more interesting by creating a rogue that is NOT a halfling. If you take away the fact that halfling rogues are common, then you lose the specialness of Half-Orc Rogues or any rogue that is NOT a halfling.

I understand what you are saying about wanting your players to play a particular race because they find it interesting as oppossed to because it has good ability score synergy with their class. But is that realistic? Do you think the same player who would have picked a Halfling for their rogue based solely on the ability scores is now going to pick another race because it's interesting instead of picking it because of some other synergy bonus? Halflings get other bonuses that make them good rogues besides their abillity scores, don't they? Their size makes them better able to hide, for one thing.

Min/Max players are always gonna Min/Max. So the current system appeals to Min/Max players and also appeals to role-players who want to make unique and interesting characters who stand out.

 

[The Myopic Sniper]

I was thinking of trying to figure out a way to split the difference. No ability score mods for races, but rather have saving throw proficiencies tied to race rather than class to maintain the "this race has an inherent tie to this ability score and has an advantage with certain classes" feel. It is going to require a basic rewrite of all the races though and is probably more effort than it is worth.

 

[delericho]

My point is that Halfling Rogues are common and they are common for a reason and the fact that they are common means that you can make your character more interesting by creating a rogue that is NOT a halfling. If you take away the fact that halfling rogues are common, then you lose the specialness of Half-Orc Rogues or any rogue that is NOT a halfling.

As with Dwarf Wizards, the first few would be special by virtue of their novelty. After that it would wear off, but at least that way I'd get to see a few!

I understand what you are saying about wanting your players to play a particular race because they find it interesting as oppossed to because it has good ability score synergy with their class. But is that realistic? Do you think the same player who would have picked a Halfling for their rogue based solely on the ability scores is now going to pick another race because it's interesting instead of picking it because of some other synergy bonus?

Maybe. The player I'm thinking about was a fairly crude power-gamer - he'd spot and exploit the obvious synergies, but wasn't so hot on the small stuff. So take away the "big hammer" that was the ability mods and he might well not bother with the rest.

Min/Max players are always gonna Min/Max. So the current system appeals to Min/Max players and also appeals to role-players who want to make unique and interesting characters who stand out.

Problem is that the current scheme often punishes those player who want to make unique and interesting characters - picking the race that gives no bonus rather than the one that gives +2 means you'll miss your most important rolls 5% more often.