D&D 5E Greg Leeds talks about D&D

[Dausuul]

How many copies of all the 3rd and 4th edition books have sold next to 5th edition? Let's say the 5th edition sold 100,000 and the 4th edition sold 50,000. Well the Martial 1 could sell 25,000 while the Arcane sells 40,000, while the primal sells 30,000.

No, let's say the 5th edition sold 100,000 and the 4th edition sold 50,000, while Martial I, Arcane, and Primal sold 10,000 each. See? I can pull numbers out of my rear end too. And my pulled-out numbers say 5E is selling 20% better than 4E did. (Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go run for political office.)

But even assuming that more publications equals more sales, each book has a substantial overhead. You have to pay writers and editors and designers and marketers to create and advertise the thing. It has to sell enough copies of that individual book for the net revenue to cover the overhead, or it's a money-loser. There's a base number of copies you have to sell just to break even, and that number is not small.

 

[Mistwell]

You might want to reread what he actually said, not what you think he said...
"From a business perspective, revenue is up."(note that he doesn't say net)
"So you get more people buying fewer products for greater net revenue?"
"That is correct."(note that he doesn't say what he's using as the comparable nor does he say positive)

i.e. he agrees with the statement given to him, which can mean any number of things. Such as that's their intent rather than what is actually happening. He could be comparing this year to the year before 5e came out(which had basically no new product and no sales), etc...



Now normally, I wouldn't try to look at things that closely, but look again at this quote from the previous interview:
"Over-all our business is up significantly. I think anyone you talk to about what’s going on with Magic and D&D will tell you that we are having very, very strong sales."

i.e. he often makes really positive sounding statements and it very well may be positive, but you can't just assume it actually is positive. Because we have an objective instance of lousy sales where he somehow spun it to be positive.

Oh brother. Please...you're spinning. Badly. From my perspective, you look dead set to declare 5e isn't profitable no matter what facts are presented. OK then...you don't want to have an above-board discussion, we don't have to have one.

 

[Shasarak]

So external producers can do a better job than Wizards can?
That makes it sound harsh, but there are areas where we are very happy to collaborate with experts outside of Wizards of the Coast to provide the best fan experience. So in essence, I’d say a meek ‘yes.’

Well, at least it is official now.

 

[Reinhart]

Given that revenue is up I think it's pretty safe to assume that profit is up too. If D&D's revenue is up then the only way for it to be making less profit is if it's spending more per book. Given their skeleton crew vs. 4e's bloated roster, it's certainly unlikely they spent more on payroll for 5e. The fact that they relied on an American printer probably causes a significant increase in their production costs, but I doubt it's enough that it would counter-act the other cost-cutting measures. Past that, they've also increased the retail cost of their books and probably nothing holds them to printing future books in the US.

This means that they almost certainly made more per unit, and if they just sold orders roughly equal to 3e or 4e they're probably breaking a record. More importantly, ROI is going to be up, and hopefully now competitive with the other table-top game brands that Hasbro manages. Of course, don't hold your breath for production to increase.

Now all of this assumes that Leeds is being intellectually honest and comparing 2015 sales to 2008 and 2001 sales. Let's hope he's not comparing it to sales from 2014-2012, because then it's basically a vacuous statement. He's probably not being totally financially honest though, in that he's probably discounting the two and a half years of development costs where there was virtually no revenue for D&D. But that's the sort of thing no sane CEO would bring up in an interview.

 

[Corpsetaker]

Well I know corporate speech and spin when I see it because I see it everyday in meetings at my own job so I take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[MwaO]

Oh brother. Please...you're spinning. Badly. From my perspective, you look dead set to declare 5e isn't profitable no matter what facts are presented. OK then...you don't want to have an above-board discussion, we don't have to have one.

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying, there's no financial information about how well D&D is doing in this interview really and we have a previous interview with the same group where basically Greg Leeds flat out gave out misinformation about how well D&D was doing.

You view that as me spinning by pointing out obvious potentially truthful meanings to his statement, you're the one who has a deadset viewpoint...

 

[darjr]

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying, there's no financial information about how well D&D is doing in this interview really and we have a previous interview with the same group where basically Greg Leeds flat out gave out misinformation about how well D&D was doing.

You view that as me spinning by pointing out obvious potentially truthful meanings to his statement, you're the one who has a deadset viewpoint...

Wait, what? You mean the 'on a tear' thing? Sorry but that is the opposite of what I got out of that whole affair, other than nothing was proven either way. Though many within wotc were surprised at how well it was doing. I'd hardly call that misinformation.

 

[Corpsetaker]

It's really down to how much goes into a product and what your return is. It is possible to make more profit from a product without selling more than the previous product.

 

[Uchawi]

The majority of the discussion is just WOTC corporate selling points. There is no reference to comparisons between the rates of release for different editions and what the expected profit margins where.

I guess the other way to state is they will not increase the rate of products, because that would be a negative gain. So you wonder how many new players they are gaining each month. Either way if WOTC is happy then for those that enjoy the game it will be around for a while.

 

[Morrus]

Well I know corporate speech and spin when I see it because I see it everyday in meetings at my own job so I take it all with a grain of salt.

Out of curiosity - is there anything you like? You repeatedly spin everything about anything we discuss on this site into a negative. Do you have anything positive to say about anything?