D&D 5E (2014) Best way to order abilities?

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[TwoSix]

Well, for 5e, the obvious order would be:

Dex (the god stat)
Con (gives HP, important save, the never dump stat)
Wis (the last important save)
Str (the "I wear heavy armor" stat)
Cha (the casting stat for half the classes)
..
..
Int (The "I'm a wizard!" stat)

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Tony Vargas]

It never struck me before but the old school stats were in order by prime requisites of the 'big 4' in the order they came into being. Well, sorta:

S strength, the prime requisite of the fighter, the fighter/fighting-man, of course, dating back to Chainmail, in the main medieval section, while the Wizard was in the fantasy section.

I: intelligence, prime requisite of the afore-mentioned Wizard.

W: wisdom, the cleric's prime requisite - the cleric, according to legend, being invented for a player who wanted a 'Van Helsing' character while 0D&D was in development.

D: dexterity, not yet das ubersat, the prime requisite of the Thief, introduced in Greyhawk.

Co: constitution, not prime for anyone, but everyone needs it.

Ch: Charisma, the original dump stat. (edit: yes, Paladins notwithstanding, but, also no, not if you had a lot of henchmen & hirelings, OK?)


Of course, sat pairs (CON/STR, DEX/INT, WIS/CHA) actually make some sense, too, pairing up an important-save stat with the most closely related throwaway one... Alternately, pairing stats that have related uses: STR/DEX (both weapon attack stats), INT/CHA (both Arcane caster stats)... WIS/CON... er, OK, they can't all be gems... oh! both 'resilience' stats, yeah, that's it...

 

[MostlyDm]

Wasn't 4e SCDIWC? Because it grouped them by interchangeability for special defenses.

Or did I just do that in my own notes? I didn't play enough 4e to really internalize it.

Also, I think the reasoning behind SIWDCC is that it puts the four prime requisite stats up first, and tacks the two stats that everybody could use but nobody had core to their class on last. Not sure on the ordering decision beyond that single delineation though.

 

[MostlyDm]

Curse my slow typing thumbs, Tony ninja'd me. Oh well. I agree with his breakdown.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[TwoSix]

See, here's the thing. I have noticed that any people enjoy playing characters with high dexterity and/or strength, as that is something that they can roleplay with fun since it isn't necessarily what's, you know, goin' on in real life. On the other hand, many people will play characters with abysmally low intelligence scores and play them ... as themselves!*

I disagree with that as a fundamental principle. I just think it's unfair to select an intelligence score and have your character play as more intelligent than they should be.

Here's my take. Planning and strategizing are fundamental aspects of the game. Having a low-Int character shouldn't preclude you from enjoying that part of the game. (Note: I'm aware this not universally agreed upon. I know many players who believe this to be a necessary drawback to not dumping Int.) My personal interpretation is that strategizing is not definitively an Intelligence-based trait, but can be role-played using any mental stat.

A high-Wisdom character, for example, can be interpreted as extremely observant and/or extremely intuitive, or perhaps making leaps of faith into the right strategy. Divine insight as a rationale also works well for characters with divine powers. Likewise, high-Charisma characters are almost always heavily magical, so their strategy might be the result of some latent divination, or their Charisma might be the result of being natural leaders and having the natural ability to devise plans that utilize their "followers" and compatriots to the best of their abilities. (I often like to view high Charisma as having a high emotional intelligence, which corresponds with this view.)

Basically, stats can be very fungible, and I like to use the character's stats as a framework to deliver the strategy into the fiction.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Just try telling that to all the wanna-be 1e Jerk/Paladins (I think that was the multi-class?)*

*I may not, in fact, think that, but I certainly believe that.

I've often been struck by the way gamers play high-CHA characters as jerks.

Jealousy, perhaps, or lack of empathy - or maybe social skills aren't something you can 'just RP.'

Wasn't 4e SCDIWC? Because it grouped them by interchangeability for special defenses.

Yes.

And SCD|IWC also groups them by physical|mental.

Curse my slow typing thumbs, Tony ninja'd me.

120 wpm

 

[dmnqwk]

I think they need to look at how Strength and Intelligence are handled in DnD, because with Dexterity muscling in on doing everything strength can, and more, you're not seeing much of a benefit unless you're "forced" to take Str, such as a Barbarian. Intelligence has lost it's way and could almost be removed entirely, folding all aspects of it into Wisdom (which would be both knowledge and understanding now).

I voted to keep the current order, but I'd love for them to remove dex from damage, while also changing armour to have medium/heavy offer disadvantage on all dexterity checks, and heavy also slowing move without the strength requirement (but also removing the dex limit to ac boost on medium, and putting it at 3 on heavy) so a Dex-based hero had high AC, but without strength backing them up they dealt less damage.

Intelligence I don't know what they're going to do to fix things, because in its current state it is simply thief skills and wizards (with backgrounds, that can be the same character too!)