D&D 5E Best way to order abilities?

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Valador]

New School (SDCIWC) because that's what I've grown used to.

Honestly it doesn't even matter because I always double check and reference my sheet anyways when I need my ability scores for something. I can't stand people who don't even double check AND on top of that constantly get their modifier wrong... If you can't remember something for certain, maybe you should look at the sheet... I'm looking at you, Mr. "I always have a different modifier every time I attack because I don't look at my own sheet" Guy...

 

[TwoSix]

I don't want to get to side-tracked, but there's one ... small issue I see with your argument. Trouble is, no one can credibly make that argument for any other ability score. For example-
"Look, Frodo McWeakling has a 6 strength, but he's really dextrous, so, um, something something he can lift the boulder!"
"Look, Tater of the Couchlings has a 5 charisma, but he has a 15 strength, so people naturally like him because he's strong, and therefore think he's a leader!"

The problem comes up because it's hard to credibly play something you're not. Call it the "Simple Jack" problem. So, either you (as you state) "dump" in intelligence and play as yourself (which you're probably, to some extent, doing anyway), or you're not getting the Oscar because you went full {quote from movie}.

Personally, I see it as a problem because, as a player of the game, the whole point of the game is to leverage your (personal) Intelligence (with a little Wisdom and Charisma on the side). The game CAN'T leverage your personal Strength (unless you're shaking down the DM!) or your personal Constitution (ability to keep playing after 15 hours of Doritos and Dew aside). So you have a couple options.

1) Play a high-Int character and leverage your personal problem-solving skills to the hilt. (Should be OK, of course you might have the opposite of not being able to solve problems as well as your character!)
2) Play a low-Int character and simply ignore the problem solving aspects of the game. (More immersive/realistic/balanced for some, but the obvious downside of not fully participating.)
3) My personal interpretation, decouple Intelligence from problem-solving. Intelligence is the ability to understand complex information and retain large amounts of knowledge. It simply has nothing to do with making strategies or plans.

 

[Mercule]

Minor preference for old-school because, well, I've been playing that long. New school makes some sense, grouping by physical and mental, though. I don't really see any value to a third ordering, but I'd eventually get used to it.

What has me more annoyed is the new character sheets that print the modifier bigger than the stat. I'm pretty sure I'd need to play for another 30 year before I could get used to that. And, any talk of dropping the stat or changing the 3-18 human range should be a capital crime.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

I prefer the way the new school order separates physical and mental ability scores. That's all.

 

[TwoSix]

While I would agree with what you wrote, I cannot see it as a problem, because of my 5 intelligence.

Obviously you need a higher strength to lift this problem.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[dmnqwk]

I don't want to get to side-tracked, but there's one ... small issue I see with your argument. Trouble is, no one can credibly make that argument for any other ability score. For example-
"Look, Frodo McWeakling has a 6 strength, but he's really dextrous, so, um, something something he can lift the boulder!"
"Look, Tater of the Couchlings has a 5 charisma, but he has a 15 strength, so people naturally like him because he's strong, and therefore think he's a leader!"
[/I]

Strategy and planning are often misappropriated to Intelligence, there's a reason people say "I have a cunning plan" more than "I have an intelligent and well thought out plan." You need Wisdom to come up with something sneaky, you only need Intelligence when you want alternatives knowing if and when the first sneaky idea could fail.

The person who plans a museum theft requires intelligence, but the rest of the crew can get by with wisdom, because they only need to focus on their segment of the plan. If Intelligence was the sole aspect for strategy, how do Wolves get Pack Tactics? Surely they are not Intelligent enough to benefit from working with each other successfully?

I also agree that Intimidation was flawed being linked to Charisma - while it's certainly possible to Intimidate somebody with subtle threats, that is more in line with deception and "bluffing." Strength should've been the attribute for Intimidation and it's a flaw in the design to put it as a Charisma Skill because, simply put, so few DMs are aware that you can change abilities related to skills on the fly (such as requiring Intelligence (Survival) to know how to harvest a snake's glands for use in creating poisons).

Dumping Intelligence but leaving Wisdom high means you are going to be ruthless and devious, but generally short-sighted in strategy. You think 1 move at a time, and if that fails, you have to react instead of using Plan B, C or XXQ you thought up ahead of schedule. So while I agree substitution of stats directly to compensate doesn't make sense, neither does believing Intelligence is related to making a single plan of action 5 minutes before you storm the cave to rescue the prisoners more than Wisdom.

 

[TwoSix]

Dumping Intelligence but leaving Wisdom high means you are going to be ruthless and devious, but generally short-sighted in strategy. You think 1 move at a time, and if that fails, you have to react instead of using Plan B, C or XXQ you thought up ahead of schedule. So while I agree substitution of stats directly to compensate doesn't make sense, neither does believing Intelligence is related to making a single plan of action 5 minutes before you storm the cave to rescue the prisoners more than Wisdom.

Whereas I would have to disagree that "high Wisdom" and "short-sighted" go anywhere near each other. In general, it's why I think it's a bad idea to generalize personality traits from stats. Having a 20 Intelligence and 20 Wisdom does not preclude you from being a hothead, not does a 10 Int / 10 Wis preclude you from being a steady, levelheaded thinker.