D&D 5E New Players same level as Current Players?

[ad_hoc]

You're sorry that my group treats everyone at the table as equals and goes out of the way to help each other out? I don't think you picked up on what my post was actually about.

It seems to me that you are saying that if you aren't playing characters of the same level that you aren't treating each other as equals and you aren't helping each other out.

Which I find to be a ridiculous way to view the game and each other.

 

[Nytmare]

It seems to me that you are saying that if you aren't playing characters of the same level that you aren't treating each other as equals and you aren't helping each other out.

Which I find to be a ridiculous way to view the game and each other.

You are 100% correct, that would be a ridiculous way for you to view manduck's game.

 

[Sunseeker]

I find one of the best tools is to take the player's crazy requests and then run with it. Last session, a monk wanted to attack an ice mephit that was out of range so he jumped attacked it in midair, killing it, and then landed on the other side of the ravine. Same battle the Ranger rolled a 1 on a longbow attack. So my Monk was like, can it hit me and I'll try to deflect it. I replied with sure, why not; had the ranger roll to hit the monk, the monk deflected it and was able to throw it at another mephit. It was the coolest the monk had been all throughout that adventure.

This is typically what I do as well. I had a very similar situation too, had a player nat 1 on attacking an enemy adjacent to the Monk, had him roll a 1d4, on a 4 he hit the Monk instead, so the Monk used redirect missiles to hit the enemy. It worked out pretty cool.

But on the other side, players are typically their own worst enemies. They want to be a monster? Make them a monster. They want to have 3 legs? Give 'em 3 legs. They want to do something crazy? Let 'em try. Typically they'll either learn from their mistakes.....or die.

 

[Valdier]

I currently use the following:

Death - Characters that die will come in at half of the highest level PC or your last PC’s level -2, whichever is lower (minimum 1). Limited to ½ party average level.

New Characters - Changing PC’s brings you in at your current character level -2

For every level different between yourself and the highest level PC, you earn (Level Difference x 10%) bonus XP

 

[manduck]

It seems to me that you are saying that if you aren't playing characters of the same level that you aren't treating each other as equals and you aren't helping each other out.

Which I find to be a ridiculous way to view the game and each other.

Ahhh I see. What I was trying to say is that we don't want anyone at the table to feel like they've been left behind or may not be able to contribute to the group because they can't do as much. That may not actually be the case, from a helping the party perspective. Though the player who is a level or two behind may still feel that way, regardless of how they help the party. So we make sure that no one has to feel like the little guy in the group and just keep everyone at the same xp level. If they need a hand with the extra character options, we just take a little time to help them out. No one in my group would have a negative opinion of another player or their character if they actually were of lower level. They would actually feel more protective of that character. We just want everyone at the table to feel more like the hero and less like the sidekick. Sidekicks are cool and all, but that's more a place for hirelings and other NPCs.

 

[the Jester]

That's absolutely fine. We each have a limit to how much effort we can put into the hobby -- god knows I have less time and patience for planning a game compared to when I was younger.

Okay, I have to start by taking a little exception to this.

Using a game as therapy has absolutely nothing to do with how much time you put into your game. I'll hazard a guess that I put as much or more time and effort into my campaign as you do, because I truly do spend ludicrous amounts of time on my game. Whether you intend it or not, when you start talking about how someone who disagrees with you just doesn't have time to agree with you, you come across as a bit patronizing.

So please, understand that this isn't about how much effort I'm willing to put into my game, or whether I game with close friends, or whether I have enough time for everything, or whatever. It's about whether I want to use my game as a therapy tool. And no I don't. Not one bit. That isn't what it's for.

Which isn't to say that it's wrong to do that- if you want to run therapy sessions, that's fine. Me, I'm totally cool with murdering my friends in horrible, horrible ways (in-game). I killed my girlfriend recently. I've tortured them, killed their friends and family, turned one pc's mom into a werewolf, cursed them with a variety of awful curses, pursued them even past the ends of the earth. None of that is very therapeutic, but damn, it sure is fun. And it's fun for everyone. If it's not fun for someone, that person leaves the

We are all in it for the long haul and it is easy to burn out when you put 110% of yourself into every game. We gotta pace ourselves.

But adding some therapy and providing a little catharsis is one of the best tools you can use to elevate your game from good to great.

No, not for me it isn't. I don't need that stuff to elevate my game. I need a strong and deep setting with groups and npcs whose agendas I am familiar with, and the wherewithal to follow the pcs' choices where they lead. I need to know the area the pcs are in and what monsters live there. I need to know if there's a local dungeon or two (or ten), and where it is, who lives there, where it came from and why. I need to know the history of the world and how it works. But I don't need to add some therapy or provide any catharsis outside of the catharsis of a good game scene.

And again, it's fine if it's your thing. But it's not the thing. You come across as if Therapy D&D is always good for a group. It's not. Some groups don't want that out of their games. Some groups might even be disturbed or upset by touching on whatever the therapy topic is. It's just like games that integrate modern politics (e.g. by having analogs of the Republicans and Democrats in a political stalemate in game) or elements from novels or comics (e.g. "We found Captain America's shield!") or science fiction bits ("holy crap, this is a crashed space ship!"). Some people love it, some people hate it. It's not for everyone.

 

[Iry]

Using a game as therapy has absolutely nothing to do with how much time you put into your game.

Sure it does. You need to stay moderately up to date on the troubles and frustrations that your players are having in real life, which requires time spent talking to them. Sometimes this happens as a natural part of hanging out with your friends, sometimes it happens at the gaming table itself (depending on how much OOC chatter happens at your table), sometimes you have to make an effort to stay up to date with them. Definitely greater than zero research time. There's also the time spent actually keeping up with basic psychology, but personal investment on that front is going to be radically different from one person to the next. Still greater than zero!

It's about whether I want to use my game as a therapy tool. And no I don't. Not one bit. That isn't what it's for.

This is completely reasonable.

No, not for me it isn't. I don't need that stuff to elevate my game. I need a strong and deep setting with groups and npcs whose agendas I am familiar with, and the wherewithal to follow the pcs' choices where they lead. I need to know the area the pcs are in and what monsters live there. I need to know if there's a local dungeon or two (or ten), and where it is, who lives there, where it came from and why. I need to know the history of the world and how it works. But I don't need to add some therapy or provide any catharsis outside of the catharsis of a good game scene.

That is where we will have to agree to disagree. I am not suggesting for a moment that your game is not already good. It probably is! But I genuinely believe that there is an excellent chance your players would have more fun if you intentionally provide some opportunities for catharsis (assuming they are not hardcore sandboxers).

And again, it's fine if it's your thing. But it's not the thing. You come across as if Therapy D&D is always good for a group. It's not. Some groups don't want that out of their games. Some groups might even be disturbed or upset by touching on whatever the therapy topic is. Some people love it, some people hate it. It's not for everyone.

I've run games for over a hundred different players and it has been my anecdotal experience that some basic psychology and catharsis is almost always good for a group. I've seen it do wonderful things for a half dozen other DMs who decided to give it a spin and had great results, and there was only one DM who had bad results. So there are definitely some groups who have no interest in this kind of thing, as you mentioned, but they seem to be a minority. In any case, we've made both of our positions clear to the other and I wish you the best with your game. For everyone else reading, I definitely recommend giving it a try!

 

[the Jester]

I've already pointed out how what you're doing is patronizing. Please be aware that your most recent post comes across like, "If you don't do games as therapy, you're not keeping up with your friends' lives", when in fact, I don't do games as therapy but I most certainly do keep up with my friends' lives. I'd really appreciate it if you could recognize that people who play differently than you aren't somehow missing out on something, and that your playstyle isn't somehow something that makes your game superior. It just makes it your game.

 

[Iry]

I've already pointed out how what you're doing is patronizing. Please be aware that your most recent post comes across like, "If you don't do games as therapy, you're not keeping up with your friends' lives", when in fact, I don't do games as therapy but I most certainly do keep up with my friends' lives.

I'm really confused here. That is definitely not my intention. I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. Intentionally including opportunities for catharsis in your stories certainly does take extra planning time, and familiarity with your players, but choosing not to intentionally include opportunities for catharsis in your game does not have anything to do with the quality of your friendships.

I'd really appreciate it if you could recognize that people who play differently than you aren't somehow missing out on something, and that your playstyle isn't somehow something that makes your game superior. It just makes it your game.

I've known many DMs who have had very positive results. You may not have positive results. Intentionally including opportunities for catharsis is certainly not the only way to improve your game -- there are lots of ways! But if you are not including it then there is a good chance you are missing out on something.

 

[Sunseeker]

I'm really confused here. That is definitely not my intention. I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. Intentionally including opportunities for catharsis in your stories certainly does take extra planning time, and familiarity with your players, but choosing not to intentionally include opportunities for catharsis in your game does not have anything to do with the quality of your friendships.
I've known many DMs who have had very positive results. You may not have positive results. Intentionally including opportunities for catharsis is certainly not the only way to improve your game -- there are lots of ways! But if you are not including it then there is a good chance you are missing out on something.

I'll be honest, I can't say I'd be comfortable with that. As the son of a therapist, issues that require catharsis are ones that should be handled delicately in a personal environment. Now that might be your game, but that has not, IME been the games I have played in. That aside, even with your friends you have no guarantee on how they will react and such moments need to be properly handled and channeled to create good growth. It's possible you're a therapist, but that to me makes matters worse, you're attempting to provide therapy for people who may not want it and doubly worse, you're injecting yourself into their lives by assuming they need it.

Reviewing some of your earlier conversations, I'm going to go further and say that what you do would make me completely uncomfortable to be your friend. There are things I tell some friends and not others, because my level of trust with them is greater or lesser than another, or because I think they would be more understanding. These things are often told in confidence, that is, I assume you're not telling others about them. If I were to realize that you were taking the things I had told you privately and turning them into game elements, I would be absolutely ENRAGED. In fact I'm fairly miffed just thinking about it and this is the first post of yours I've seen!

I think that's too much to risk over a game.