D&D 5E Do you want your DM to fudge?

[iserith]

I wonder if this goes some distance to explaining the different approaches. Those that don't fudge, at a guess, probably hew closer to baseline game expectations, and those that do fudge tend to wander further afield when creating encounters.

It's not true in my case. I don't even look at XP or CR anymore. I throw whatever makes sense at the party. Oftentimes, that means well above Deadly (by the numbers) multiple times per adventuring day.

The reason I don't need to fudge is that the stakes aren't always life-and-death and, even when they are, I'm prepared for character death with backup characters. If your PC gets laid low by that multi-critical fire giant, grab your backup character and play on. Or if you are of appropriate level and resources, have a contingency plan in place to resurrect the character in short order.

The possibility of bad luck occurring should be part of a player's decision-making process as should what to do if the character buys the farm.

 

[Lanliss]

It's not true in my case. I don't even look at XP or CR anymore. I throw whatever makes sense at the party. Oftentimes, that means well above Deadly (by the numbers) multiple times per adventuring day.

The reason I don't need to fudge is that the stakes aren't always life-and-death and, even when they are, I'm prepared for character death with backup characters. If your PC gets laid low by that multi-critical fire giant, grab your backup character and play on. Or if you are of appropriate level and resources, have a contingency plan in place to resurrect the character in short order.

The possibility of bad luck occurring should be part of a player's decision-making process as should what to do if the character buys the farm.

As amazing as you seem to be as a DM, I am not sure I could play a game with you. I get way too attached to my characters to think of them possibly dying. I could handle it every now and then, but I would not be able to make backup characters for every session. It would feel too much like what it is, planning for my PC to die.

 

[iserith]

As amazing as you seem to be as a DM, I am not sure I could play a game with you. I get way too attached to my characters to think of them possibly dying. I could handle it every now and then, but I would not be able to make backup characters for every session. It would feel too much like what it is, planning for my PC to die.

Thanks for the kind words. Whether or not your character takes a dirt nap is on you though - what kind of decisions you make in the face of deadly perils. In my experience, when players know the DM isn't going to save them, they play to the hilt. As a result, I don't see a lot of character death, but it definitely happens.

 

[Maxperson]

A recent event in our current game kinda made me think about this thread. Our 6th level party was facing an enemy group, including a pair of trolls. One of the trolls had disadvantage on attacks and then proceeded to hit the monk three straight times anyway. A very low percentage event. Thing is, even with three hits, all he did was hurt the 6th level monk, nothing too serious. Dropped the monk out of about half of his HP.

This got me to thinking, what if that troll had critted three straight times? Well, other than probably dropping the monk to zero HP, nothing. It would be virtually impossible for the troll to outright kill the monk (barring hitting him after he's down). But, that's a CR 5 troll vs a 6th level PC. He shouldn't be able to outright kill that PC. That's exactly in line with encounter design and CR expectations.

So, a 1 in 8000 event (something that is rare enough that it should qualify for Maxperson's criteria of a fudgeable die roll series) would almost never be fudged because there is no need.

There are a number of things wrong with that idea. First, you are assuming a fresh party and monk. If the monk has been beat on for a few rounds, a few crits will be devastating. Second, you are assuming that the crits have to come consecutively. They don't. They can come over a short period of rounds along with a higher than average number of hits. Third, there can be multiple trolls attacking the monk. If there are three trolls, you can have crit, hit, miss, hit, crit, miss, hit, crit, hit, and end up with a dead monk. All at much lower than 1 in 8000 odds. Fourth, you are only looking at trolls. Different monsters do different damage and have different special abilities. Just because trolls don't break with 3 simultaneous crits (and sometimes they do depending on circumstance), doesn't mean that 1 in 8000 is good across the board for all creatures.

 

[TwoSix]

As amazing as you seem to be as a DM, I am not sure I could play a game with you. I get way too attached to my characters to think of them possibly dying. I could handle it every now and then, but I would not be able to make backup characters for every session. It would feel too much like what it is, planning for my PC to die.

Heh. It's funny, but one of the reasons I don't like fudging is because the DM usually fudges things so that I don't die. I don't make multiple backup characters because I'm expecting my PC to live, Mr. DM!

Honestly, if I could figure out a way to play a different character every session without totally messing up any semblance of a coherent story, I would. I just don't get very attached to PCs.

 

[billd91]

There are a number of things wrong with that idea.

And, of course, there are creatures out there with much harsher crits. Take a look at the wraith. Same CR as the troll but its normal damage is 4d8+3 which means the crit is 8d8+3. And, not only might you take that damage, but fail the DC 14 Con save and you'll have your max hit points reduced by the same amount of damage you take. Assuming the monk blows the save, how well is going to handle a hit of approximately 39 hit points and with his max hit points reduced the same amount? Figure the 6th level monk's got 38 hp + 6x Con bonus of maybe 1 or 2? If he doesn't have a Con bonus or was injured even a modest amount, that crit could be laying him out even if he makes the save. Fail the save and he's in a world of hurt. And that's a monster with a CR under his level. I'm going to estimate that's more likely than 1 in 8000.

 

[TwoSix]

And, of course, there are creatures out there with much harsher crits. Take a look at the wraith. Same CR as the troll but its normal damage is 4d8+3 which means the crit is 8d8+3. And, not only might you take that damage, but fail the DC 14 Con save and you'll have your max hit points reduced by the same amount of damage you take. Assuming the monk blows the save, how well is going to handle a hit of approximately 39 hit points and with his max hit points reduced the same amount? Figure the 6th level monk's got 38 hp + 6x Con bonus of maybe 1 or 2? If he doesn't have a Con bonus or was injured even a modest amount, that crit could be laying him out even if he makes the save. Fail the save and he's in a world of hurt. And that's a monster with a CR under his level. I'm going to estimate that's more likely than 1 in 8000.

 

[Maxperson]

And, of course, there are creatures out there with much harsher crits. Take a look at the wraith. Same CR as the troll but its normal damage is 4d8+3 which means the crit is 8d8+3. And, not only might you take that damage, but fail the DC 14 Con save and you'll have your max hit points reduced by the same amount of damage you take. Assuming the monk blows the save, how well is going to handle a hit of approximately 39 hit points and with his max hit points reduced the same amount? Figure the 6th level monk's got 38 hp + 6x Con bonus of maybe 1 or 2? If he doesn't have a Con bonus or was injured even a modest amount, that crit could be laying him out even if he makes the save. Fail the save and he's in a world of hurt. And that's a monster with a CR under his level. I'm going to estimate that's more likely than 1 in 8000.

I'm pretty sure that was covered by my point number 4.

"Fourth, you are only looking at trolls. Different monsters do different damage and have different special abilities."

You explained it better, though.

 

[Hussar]

That's like saying a medusa needs fudging because a single failed save means dead PC. Some monsters are straight up deadly.

But, I was talking in more general terms. In [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION]'s example, likely the monk goes into negatives but since the troll can't do 40 damage on a crit, he cannot flat out kill the monk. Assuming the monk has 40 hp of course.

Even the wraith isn't killing the monk. He'd have to deal over 40 damage on that crit. Possible but extremely unlikely given he'd have to crit, do above average damage and the monk would have to fail a save. We're well into the less than 1% chance there. Higher than 1 in 8000 but the point still stands. The odds here are very rare.

The existence of an exception does not disprove my point.

 

[BryonD]

That's like saying a medusa needs fudging because a single failed save means dead PC. Some monsters are straight up deadly.

Hear Hear!!!