Considerations when Designing a Warlord.

[mellored]

Not with optimized allies. Still much higher than a basic cantrip.

Math?

 

[FrogReaver]

Math?

On I phone. I'll set up scenario.

dounce post

 

[FrogReaver]

Math?

On I phone. I'll set up scenario.

Greatswrod fighter. Using the -5 +10 ability bs not using it.

70 percent base chance to hit
+ 15% to hit from precision attack
8.33+5 base damage

11.33 damage per attack. 3 attacks

Vs 45% chance to hit
+15% hit from precision attack
8.33. + 15 damage

13.998 damage per attack. 3 attacks

hopefully you can take it from here.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm estimating about 50% more damage than compared to adding your caster mod to a cantrip. Without the -2 hit

 

[mellored]

On I phone. I'll set up scenario.

Greatswrod fighter. Using the -5 +10 ability bs not using it.

70 percent base chance to hit
+ 15% to hit from precision attack
8.33+5 base damage

11.33 damage per attack. 3 attacks

Vs 45% chance to hit
+15% hit from precision attack
8.33. + 15 damage

13.998 damage per attack. 3 attacks

hopefully you can take it from here.

Battlemaster dice don't recharge between turns. If you burn them on the warlord granted attack, you don't get them on your next attack. No net difference. Same with smite, or stuns.

But... giving 3 attacks to a fighter, who deals 1/2 damage =

(8.33+15) * .45 * 3 / 2 = 15.74775

Firebolt (with mod) = (3d10 + 5) * .7 = 15.05

So... 4.6% more damage.

Oh, and 1/2 damage rounds down, so -1.5, which would leave 14.24775 damage.
So 5.3% lower damage. Even optimized.

Things don't need to be exact in 5e.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm counting a fixed amount of superiority dice. Using them all smartly for precision attack increases chance to hit about 15% over the course of an 8 turn short till next short rest setup.

Battlemaster dice don't recharge between turns. If you burn them on the warlord granted attack, you don't get them on your next attack. No net difference. Same with smite, or stuns.

But... giving 3 attacks to a fighter, who deals 1/2 damage =

(8.33+15) * .45 * 3 / 2 = 15.74775

Firebolt (with mod) = (3d10 + 5) * .7 = 15.05

So... 4.6% more damage.

Oh, and 1/2 damage rounds down, so -1.5, which would leave 14.24775 damage.
So 5.3% lower damage. Even optimized.

Things don't need to be exact in 5e.

 

[mellored]

I'm counting a fixed amount of superiority dice. Using them all smartly for precision attack increases chance to hit about 15% over the course of an 8 turn short till next short rest setup.

Ok...

But that still doesn't apply to the granted attacks.

 

[FrogReaver]

Ok...

But that still doesn't apply to the granted attacks.

Actually it does

 

[jodyjohnson]

A couple off the top of my head:
* Trigger a reaction in a way that an ally could not use otherwise
* Grant out-of-turn movement (but neither action nor attack) at the rolling of Initiative

I would normally categorize these as action granting (little 'a'). Are there any current Warlord builds on the forum advocating full 'Action' granting?

Action Surge (Fighter 2), Thief's Reflexes (Thief 17), and the playtest Ambuscade Ranger feature are the main ones I recall.

The standard seems to be Weapon Attack or movement granting. Even the action granting of the Beastmaster isn't really a full Action (no multi-attack, beasts have limited actions).

* Modify Initiative rolls at the start of combat (for example, choose to subsitute the Warlord's History check then?)

In a round about way this is "* Adding a bonus to Skill/Ability Checks"

 

[Remathilis]

A couple off the top of my head:

* Trigger a reaction in a way that an ally could not use otherwise
* Modify Initiative rolls at the start of combat (for example, choose to subsitute the Warlord's History check then?)
* Grant out-of-turn movement (but neither action nor attack) at the rolling of Initiative

* Most Warlord granted-actions (I wager) would need to eat the receiving allies reaction up (much like how a battlemaster's extra attack does) as a balancing factor. This would prevent "stacking" actions (such as 3 warlord all using an extra attack power on a fighter in one round).
* My fear here is that Expertise would absolutely DESTROY using skills for Init. A 1 level dip for +4-+12 to Init? Sounds good. That said, granting an initiative bonus is an option.
* I'm thinking this could be handled with with "grant action: dash"

Now, the next thing to consider is what is the economy for using these powers. Right now, their are four major economies in 5e: Dice (superiority Dice, Bardic Inspiration Dice), Spell Slots (Spells), Per Rests (x amount per short/long rest) and Points (spell points and psionics).

Right now, let's rule out spell slots (we're not making a nomagical caster) so that leaves us with points, dice, or per rests. Per rests are good for auxiliary abilities (something you're not going to do every round or every combat, like action surge or rage), Dice seem unique to buffing or martial classes, which the warlord falls into, and points (at the moment) are just a more fine-tuned spell slot system.

The other thing to consider is what effect each should be granting. Bonuses come in a few types: bonus dice (bless, bardic inspiration), advantage/disadvantage, or static bonus (rare and usually unchanging) or unique effect (healing, removing conditions, granting an action).

Once we pick our power economy and types of effecs (Pay X to get Y effect) we will have to set prices and resources (how much x does y cost, how many x's do we get per day). At that point, its just a matter of playtesting to make sure things are broken.

Personally, if it were me, I'd be looking at a suped up Battlemaster as a base class (with more powers and many more dice) with some per-rest auxiliary powers and a few always on abilities (such the aforementioned bonus to init).

Good luck.