Considerations when Designing a Warlord.

My view, for what it's worth, is that a significant portion of the D&D fan base take it for granted that a person's capabilities are something that is inherent to him/her. So any change or enhancement of those capabilities must have an explanation in the form of something that changes the inherent mechanisms of the person - eg cybernetic implants (for a sci-fi game) or magical boosts (for a fantasy game).
I hadn't heard it described that way before, but it makes sense that some people would feel that way. If you say that a Warlord can inspire someone to the tune of +1d4 on a check, then you're essentially saying that someone isn't that motivated whenever they don't gain the +1d4.

It's like telling players how their characters are supposed to feel about something. And that's bad. Unless it's fear or insanity, I guess, but those can usually be attributed to magic.
 

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At X level capabilities should be roughly balanced with other classes abilities.
An ability to buff any ally is strictly superior to an identical ability that just buffs yourself.
Attack granting is very difficult to balance.
Advantage granting abilities are very difficult to balance as well.
Action granting abilities are even more difficult to balance.
Attack roll boosts are very difficult to balance
Damage boosts on more than a single attack can be difficult to balance (since different characters get different numbers of attacks)
Granting movement does relatively little in 5e most the time

Being heavily involved in Beastmaster discussions, it seems to me you just described the slightly underpowered Ranger subclass.

Trading Action to Companion - "Attack granting is very difficult to balance."
At 7th Companion can Help using Bonus action or alternately Knockdown/Trip - "Advantage granting abilities are very difficult to balance as well."
Trading Action to Companion - "Action granting abilities are even more difficult to balance."
Beastmaster with Magical Adept and Bless - "Attack roll boosts are very difficult to balance"
Hunter's Mark - "Damage boosts on more than a single attack can be difficult to balance (since different characters get different numbers of attacks)"
Companion moves for free - "Granting movement does relatively little in 5e most the time"

The Companion is a Beastmaster feature and does not count as a separate party member.
 

At X level capabilities should be roughly balanced with other classes abilities.
This is important to remember. The capabilities of most 5e sub-classes include spellcasting which is both quite powerful and extremely versatile.

Granting movement does relatively little in 5e most the time
But, 5e has movement, range, area &c precise to the foot. It's up to the DM how carefully to track such things. A matter of style (and modules in use).

That said, abilities that grant movement or special kinds of movement can be abstracted to the intended benefit of that movement: like being able to disengage from or gain advantage against an enemy, for instance.

An ability to buff any ally is strictly superior to an identical ability that just buffs yourself.
Well, an ability that buffs you or an ally is strictly superior. Ally-only buffs run into serious issues when you lack allies atm.

Attack granting is very difficult to balance.
Almost as difficult as at-will multi-attacking. Which 5e has tons of.

Advantage granting abilities are very difficult to balance as well.
The help action grants advantage. It's almost trivial.

Action granting abilities are even more difficult to balance.
Not as difficult as attack-granting.

Attack roll boosts are very difficult to balance
Bounded Accuracy doesn't leave a lot of wiggle-room for large bonuses or multiple stacking bonuses. It's just a matter of keeping them small, or non-stacking, or random.

Damage boosts on more than a single attack can be difficult to balance (since different characters get different numbers of attacks)
It's the parenthetical that's the problem. This is one of the big reasons that multi-attacking has always been problematic to balance. 5e's solution is not to worry about it, and Empowering the DM to enforce the level or degree of balance he's comfortable with.

Finding fluff reasons for such a Warlord's abilities can be very difficult as well.
Not really. Warlord fluff all but writes itself, it's so fantasy- and action- genre-appropriate.

Because most of the "Warlordy" type abilities are so hard to balance
The warlord balanced neatly in 4e, so it can't have been that hard.

I don't know if we will ever see a balanced 5e Warlord that meets 4e Warlord fans expectations from just a mechanics perspective.
It is a challenge. The bar has been raised so high by the 5e versions of other classes that filled the 'leader' role in 4e, and in 5e are supremely versatile support-capable casters. A Warlord that's a viable alternative to the Cleric, Bard, Druid, & Paladin will have to be much more versatile & powerful than the 4e version.


Would a concentration mechanic really be that difficult to implement for a warlord? It doesn't make the warlord's abilities magic, but it does requite concentrating.
It doesn't make oodles of sense for the Warlord to concentrate, per se, but RL certainly teaches us that keeping a fighting force on-mission is very challenging. Sufficiently abstract/'simple' (by 5e standards) mechanics to model that could play a similar balancing role as concentration. Not that concentration is exactly a massive balancing factor, nor that balance is a major goal/consideration of 5e design (it's more a consideration left to those DMs who care about it).

. Right now, their are four major economies in 5e: Dice (superiority Dice, Bardic Inspiration Dice), Spell Slots (Spells), Per Rests (x amount per short/long rest) and Points (spell points and psionics).
Slots are an x/rest resource, just a very plentiful, powerful, and versatile one compared to things like Rage or CS dice. Points, likewise, are plentiful x/rest like spells, just more granular and thus even more flexible.

So, really, you've got x/short rest, x/long rest, and 1/2x/long rest (HD, the slowest-to-recover resource in the standard game).

Personally, if it were me, I'd be looking at a suped up Battlemaster as a base class (with more powers and many more dice) with some per-rest auxiliary powers and a few always on abilities (such the aforementioned bonus to init)
For a design that eschews doing anything unprecedented it's an obvious place to start. There's an obvious analogy between the Battlemaster's slight dabbling in a x/rest resource (CS dice, a handful of maneuvers), and the EK's dabbling in slots & spells known. Just look at how much more full casters get relative to the EK, and you'll have a rough order of magnitude idea about how much more the Warlord might need in the maneuver and resource department relative to the BM. Of course, that's assuming that the BM's CS dice at all measure up to the EK's spells, in the first place....
 

There's only so far theory-craft can go.

The best option is to actually try it in your game. Talk to your DM and arrange to take your character and remove their combat options, and instead inspire and ally to make attacks on your turn. Test it with regular damage and Mellored's half damage idea. See how it works with play. Let your group see if they can find ways of abusing it, and if it's fun in play.
If you don't want to disrupt your game, do it in a one-shot or mini campaign.

Playtest the concept and let us know how it goes.
 

I think the problem with Warlord stems primarily from whether to consider it a primary melee combatant with support abilities or whether to consider it a "lazy" character that just supports allies.

A single class in 5e will not be able to cover both types of warlords without drastically altering the subclass formula. Maybe that's the biggest problem to creating a warlord class in 5e.
 

I think the problem with Warlord stems primarily from whether to consider it a primary melee combatant with support abilities or whether to consider it a "lazy" character that just supports allies.

A single class in 5e will not be able to cover both types of warlords without drastically altering the subclass formula. Maybe that's the biggest problem to creating a warlord class in 5e.
I agree that these can be hard to balance within the subclass formula. But maybe not impossible (after all, illusionists and evokers are meant to be balanced within the subclass formula for wizards).

But, if in doubt, I would not start with the "lazy" variant. I would start with the second-tier warrior who inspires his/her allies.
 

Actually it does
You have 5 superiority dice.

(3 attacks * 8 rounds +3 for action surge)* 25% chance to miss (no including natural 1s) = 6.75 dice needed.
Not including bonus action attacks from GWM.


Unless you get rather lucky, you're going to run out of dice with just the fighters attacks. None will be left over for the granted attacks.

Sure there might be times when you are granted an attack against a 1 HP foe, and you miss by 1, and you spend a die to finish it off. But that's still reducing your chances to hit the next foe. Otherwise you wouldn't want to spend resources on 1/2 damage, when you can get full damage on your own turn.
 

There's only so far theory-craft can go.

The best option is to actually try it in your game. Talk to your DM and arrange to take your character and remove their combat options, and instead inspire and ally to make attacks on your turn. Test it with regular damage and Mellored's half damage idea. See how it works with play. Let your group see if they can find ways of abusing it, and if it's fun in play.
If you don't want to disrupt your game, do it in a one-shot or mini campaign.

Playtest the concept and let us know how it goes.
To make things easier.

I suggest making a cleric with a "grant attack action for 1/2 damage" cantrip. (called "holy fury"?).

See how it compares to a normal cleric's cantrips.
 

I think the problem with Warlord stems primarily from whether to consider it a primary melee combatant with support abilities or whether to consider it a "lazy" character that just supports allies.

A single class in 5e will not be able to cover both types of warlords without drastically altering the subclass formula. Maybe that's the biggest problem to creating a warlord class in 5e.

We already have the "Primary melee combatant with support abilities": that's the main point ChrisCarlson, Hussar, and others are making. Battle Master, PDK, Mastermind, and the Healer and Inspiring Leader feats. And the 2 Warlords on DMsG are both more of the same.

Some Warlord builds might do that again with a full Warlord class but I feel that's not the niche that I like to see a class for.

Which builds do you think are trying to do both? I bumped the thread yesterday.
 

To make things easier.

I suggest making a cleric with a "grant attack action for 1/2 damage" cantrip. (called "holy fury"?).

See how it compares to a normal cleric's cantrips.

There you go. Sounds totally broken to me but try it out in your game for a couple sessions and let me know how it goes.
 

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