D&D 5E Critical too easy?

[Wiskeim]

Hi, im new here, from Spain.

Sorry if my english has any mistake.

IS critical too easy? Ok, easy against enemies, about 1/20 possibilities or a 5% probabilities, but is easy againts party too.

Would be better critical threat or confirmation crit, roll a second die to wait a succesfully attack (as 3.0 ed for example), what do u think?

Thanks,
Wiskeim

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Hello, and welcome!

To answer your question, from my table, no. In any given combat with four PCs they may crit once or twice if at all; likewise for me as DM. If you have predominantly martial melee characters as opposed to spellcasters (as not all of their spells require a to-hit roll), the number of Crits will statistically increase, I suppose.

You are right though, in that it works for both sides.

Perhaps we have rubbish dice, or bad rolling skills, but it hasn't come up as glaringly a problem at my table. Others may have different stories to tell. To be honest, I prefer to keep Crits as something that can happen because when it does for the PCs their eyes light up...and when it happens to them, they groan.

Keeps them invested in the game.

 

[Horwath]

5% isn't that much. IMO it's quite low.

I would also double any modifier to weapon damage not just weapon die, so you dont get below average damage with critical.

Or max damage plus all the dices rolled again. So, let's say greataxe attack that deals 1d12+3 damage would be either 2d12+6 or 1d12+15.

 

[Wiskeim]

Ok, ok, but another example:

Tipical party low lvl (4 PC lvl 3 or 4) fights againts low level CR (goblins maybe). In this case, goblins are easy to kill but they will be too many...Goblins will have high probabilities of crit in one-roll-attack per goblins. No confirmation is crit. too easy for weaking enemies but numerous.

Thanks,
Wiskeim

 

[Wiskeim]

5% isn't that much. IMO it's quite low.

Dude, in another system RPG, i u think, crit´s prob is lower than 5%.

In percentil will be with 01, or 02...that is 2%.

Wiskeim

 

[Sage Genesis]

Just because a critical hit happens doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

You must look at critical hits in two ways: how often they happen, and what they actually do.

Critical hits in 5e are weak for most people because they only double the dice. In 3e they could double all damage, or triple it, or even quadruple it. In 4e they would maximize normal damage and then add bonus dice on top of that. Of those three editions, 5e is the mildest.

When you say the goblins might score critical hits often, what you're actually saying is "sometimes I might roll an extra 1d6 damage". Big deal, that's almost nothing. Adding in confirmation rolls only slows things down with extra dice rolling for very little benefit.

Now sure, there are also some monsters who benefit more from critical hits than others. The Balor is the prime example of that. But they were meant to have scary critical hits. Don't nerf monsters without a good reason.

 

[ccs]

If the goal is a simple crit system, then I'm fine with crits occurring on a 20.
Really though I don't any sort of crits - success or failure - in the game. I don't care what # you roll, it's %5 odds of occurring. Beyond being either success/failure, it's not inherently any more important than the other 19 #s on the dice.

What I really really don't want are critical success without the possibility of critical failure.

 

[Croesus]

Hi, im new here, from Spain.

Sorry if my english has any mistake.

IS critical too easy? Ok, easy against enemies, about 1/20 possibilities or a 5% probabilities, but is easy againts party too.

Would be better critical threat or confirmation crit, roll a second die to wait a succesfully attack (as 3.0 ed for example), what do u think?

Thanks,
Wiskeim

This is why Gary Gygax didn't like critical hit/fumble systems. His argument was that while any individual monster has a small chance of being affected, the PC's, because they are in many, many battles, will eventually roll a critical fumble or be subject to a critical hit from a monster. Any group using the really nasty critical tables, such as losing limbs, permanent scars, etc. were guaranteeing that the PC's would be subject to such effects at some point.

But most players like critical hits, so 5E kept them. They've limited the effects to additional damage, but it still means a PC can die outright to a crit. One of the risks of the game, if using RAW.

Ok, ok, but another example:

Tipical party low lvl (4 PC lvl 3 or 4) fights againts low level CR (goblins maybe). In this case, goblins are easy to kill but they will be too many...Goblins will have high probabilities of crit in one-roll-attack per goblins. No confirmation is crit. too easy for weaking enemies but numerous.

Thanks,
Wiskeim

So long as the encounter is within the bounds of what the party might handle, this isn't a problem. Take a party of four 4th level characters:

- They face a single hill giant that does 3d8+5 with a greatclub, 6d8+5 on a crit. That's a lot of damage, but what are the odds that it will crit during the entire fight. Not very good, as it's only a single giant with two attacks per round.

- They face several goblins (not sure how many, say a dozen or more). Lots of chances for crits, but the goblins only do 1d6+2 damage, 2d6+2 on a crit. An average fight might have one or two crits, but even if the goblins are on a hot streak, they'd have to land a lot of crits, mostly on the same character, to add any significant risk of PC death.

So small numbers of creatures doing a lot of damage will rarely crit, but when they do...ouch! Large numbers of weak creatures will crit more often, but when they do...shrug.

 

[Oofta]

Crits don't mean that much in 5E, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. In most cases it's a good hit, but not a fantastic one. The disadvantage is that critical hits don't feel all that special either.

In previous editions I've used variations of crits such as if you roll a 20, roll a second attack to see if you hit again. If you do hit second time, roll damage again. If the second hit is also a 20 roll a third attack to see if you hit again and add damage if you hit. If the third hit was a 20, continue rolling. This allowed for the very slight chance of an amazingly lucky hit.

It was fun in many ways, but could really slow things down for fighter types with multiple attacks which is why I no longer use it.

 

[Wiskeim]

This is why Gary Gygax didn't like critical hit/fumble systems. His argument was that while any individual monster has a small chance of being affected, the PC's, because they are in many, many battles, will eventually roll a critical fumble or be subject to a critical hit from a monster. Any group using the really nasty critical tables, such as losing limbs, permanent scars, etc. were guaranteeing that the PC's would be subject to such effects at some point.

But most players like critical hits, so 5E kept them. They've limited the effects to additional damage, but it still means a PC can die outright to a crit. One of the risks of the game, if using RAW.



So long as the encounter is within the bounds of what the party might handle, this isn't a problem. Take a party of four 4th level characters:

- They face a single hill giant that does 3d8+5 with a greatclub, 6d8+5 on a crit. That's a lot of damage, but what are the odds that it will crit during the entire fight. Not very good, as it's only a single giant with two attacks per round.

- They face several goblins (not sure how many, say a dozen or more). Lots of chances for crits, but the goblins only do 1d6+2 damage, 2d6+2 on a crit. An average fight might have one or two crits, but even if the goblins are on a hot streak, they'd have to land a lot of crits, mostly on the same character, to add any significant risk of PC death.

So small numbers of creatures doing a lot of damage will rarely crit, but when they do...ouch! Large numbers of weak creatures will crit more often, but when they do...shrug.

Ok, ok Your persuade me. Nice argument.

I like crit, i think crit makes each encounter different, or dramatic even.

Crit makes tense any combat or fight. But simply I said too many crit dont make tense each encounter, it makes too dangerous for players.

Thanks,
Wiskeim