D&D 5E Tools for Running Larger Battles Efficiently

[pukunui]

That link wasn't working for me, but I did find this link...

http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Battlesystem.pdf

Weird. It works OK for me.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6802006]Condiments[/MENTION]

I second the suggestion to refer to DMG pg 250 "Handling Mobs." Very effective for speeding up large-scale confrontations (PCs vs. lots and lots of enemies).

Since I prefer to keep the focus on the PCs (rather than running a mass combat simulation), I handle allies a bit differently than has been discussed. Basically, they're window dressing until a PC "activates" a particular group of allies. For example, you might have "Zhentarim Crossbowmen" as an ally of the PCs. On a notecard, I'd describe something like...

OOC: Zhentarim Crossbowmen Command as an Action Make ten crossbow attacks: +4 to hit; 6 (1d8+2) piercing damage. Morale save +2 Make morale checks when attacked by a Large monster, when sustaining 40+ damage, when the PC commanding them is dropped to 0 hit points, or at other times determined by the DM. Once their morale is broken, the Zhentarim Crossbowmen can no longer be commanded.

If you're familiar with Dragon Age: Origins, this is very similar to using a trumpet to call a particular group of allies in the final battle. Until the moment they're called, they are mostly behind-the-scenes and plot-protected. Once they're "activates" by a PC, however, then they become fair game for enemy fire.

 

[CapnZapp]

I'd also recommend having a look at "Handling Mobs" on page 250 of the DMG.

This has been working quite well for me. The party was ambushed twice by a group of 50 goblins last week, and this week they fought 50 skeletons. None of those battles took very long. I'm always trying to fine tune and make it as smooth and efficient as possible, and this rule is an excellent tool for that.

I really think some kind of Mob Attacks are meant as a standard tool more than some obscure DMG variant.

When the party starts to approach the third tier of play you really can't expect to handle waves of orcs and dwarfs and gnolls and other fractional CR as business as usual. That would slow down gameplay to a crawl.

But, one thing I don't like with the DMG variant - it takes away rolling d20s COMPLETELY.

I would much rather use a variant where you roll once for each mob, and the result gives you zero or more hits, with a nice boost when you roll a 20.

Remember, if you roll ONCE for a mob of half a dozen critters, that might still save you up to a dozen rolls (if the critters have two attacks each). A considerable time saver. In contrast, doing away that final last d20 save you very little extra time, but makes you lose out on considerable variety and excitement, IMHO.

So, let's repurpose the Mob Attacks table (DMG page 250).

First off, any mob with less than three critters isn't a mob. The savings isn't worth the effort, so we'll draw a line at three. If a creature somehow hits you fairly easily, that's a strong hint not to let it "mob" you...

Then we'll use a unified d20 table for ALL mobs. The only difference is the size of the mob, which we'll determine in a similar way to the DMG variant (the harder it is to hit you, the more critters in each mob).

Mob Attack d20
1-9: Miss (no hits)
11-14: Single damage
15-17: Double damage
18-19: Double damage, plus you're grappled and prone
20: Quadruple damage, plus you're grappled and prone

For each hit, use the multiattack routine of the most dangerous foe of the mob, just like the DMG tells you to.

For simplicity, we'll simply assume our table is about as dangerous as the DMG's "one auto hit" approach.

This results in the following Mob Attacks table

13-14: 3 monsters in each mob
15-16: 4 monsters in each mob
17-18: 5 monsters in each mob
19: 10 monsters in each mob
20: 20 monsters in each mob

(Do note this table is pretty much the same as the DMG one, only we're using it differently)

EXAMPLE 1

For example, eight orcs surround a fighter. The orcs' attack bonus is +5, and the fighter's AC is 19. The orcs
need a 14 or higher to hit the fighter. According to the table, this means each orc mob needs three orcs, or it isn't a mob. Six orcs form two Orc Mobs that attack the fighter. The remaining two orcs do nothing effective now, but as the fighter starts to kill off orcs, they will act as replacements.

Each of the two orc mobs make a single Mob Attack. The first one rolls 9, and so deals no damage. The second one rolls 18, meaning the mob overruns the fighter. The fighter takes 18 (2d12 + 6) slashing damage, which is double that of an Orc's damage. The fighter is now prone, and grappling an orc.


EXAMPLE 2

Another example: another fighter (hopefully a high-level one) is fighting a dozen Owlbears.

The owlbears' attack bonus is +7, and the fighter's AC is 25 (thanks to a spell from a helpful ally). The owlbears need a 18 or higher to hit the fighter. According to the table, this means each owlbear mob needs five owlbears. Ten owlbears form two Owlbear Mobs that attack the fighter. Remaining owlbears substitute as normal.

Each of the two owlbear mobs make a single Mob Attack. The first one rolls 9, and those five Owlbears do absolutely nothing. The second one rolls a 20, however. The fighter takes four times the damage of an Owlbear, which amounts to a healthy 40 (4d10+20) for the beak and 112 (16d6+40) for the claws, remembering the Owlbear's multiattack gives two claw attacks for each beak attack. That's gonna sting! Also, the fighter is prone, and grappling an Owlbear.

As this last example shows, mob attacks are probably best reserved for low-CR mobs...

Don't worry about the fighter though. His buddy has also cast Stoneskin on him, so he doesn't take more than 76 average damage even on that crit, which doesn't even bloody him. The next thing that happens is that somebody drops a Fireball or whatever right on top of the fighter, which singes him a bit but wipes out ten out of the twelve Owlbears! Presto, fight won.

 

[Ristamar]

I really think some kind of Mob Attacks are meant as a standard tool more than some obscure DMG variant.

When the party starts to approach the third tier of play you really can't expect to handle waves of orcs and dwarfs and gnolls and other fractional CR as business as usual. That would slow down gameplay to a crawl.

But, one thing I don't like with the DMG variant - it takes away rolling d20s COMPLETELY.

I would much rather use a variant where you roll once for each mob, and the result gives you zero or more hits, with a nice boost when you roll a 20.

I recall reading a blog post roughly a year ago that addressed the same complaint: http://blogofholding.com/?p=6881

There are some interesting suggestions in the comments section, as well.

 

[GMMichael]

Maybe I'm a weirdo, (don't even think about it...) but I'd like to invoke the Escalation Die here. Put your PCs up against one party of almost-easy opponents. If they win - escalation die goes up. If they're about to lose, reinforcements show up, and the escalation die either goes down, or goes to the enemy side. Winning should be pretty obvious, but the PCs know they've lost when they've eaten through all of their reinforcements.

Escalation die:
[sblock] A die that counts up from one, and the number on the die is what PCs get to add to each of their rolls. Basically. See 13th Age for details.[/sblock]

Think the Battle of Helm's Deep. The heroes had to do a bit of retreating to survive. Don't let your PCs expect to hold their ground against overwhelming odds and not die.

 

[hejtmane]

I also find having a layout on paper where all the groups are when the battle starts a visual aid does not have to be art work but a general sketch of the battle area always helps me keep things straight that way I have a general distance of monsters from players and where they are at on the battlefield. Trust me I can barley draw stick figures so I use lots of X and O's you think I was a football coach

I also write the HP next to the monster that way i know which monsters has been hit and where especially when some drops a fireball.

 

[Ancalagon]

Mass battles can be a lot of fun and aren't that hard to run if you prepare for them. I am developing a simple system for large scale conflicts which I will share here. It requires a little GM prep work but not as much as running the entire affair in the regular combat system.

The important stuff will be taking place wherever the PCs happen to be. I got the idea for this from the way I design adventure scenarios. A large battle is simply another scenario. What is important to know is, what is going to happen without PC interference. Once you have a good idea about how things will turn out if the players decide to bug out or twiddle their thumbs, then you will be ready to see how their actions influence outcomes.

LARGER SCALE BATTLES

Have an idea of all forces participating in the conflict both as allies and enemies of the PCs. The statistics of these participants will help guide you making judgment calls.

1) DIVIDE THE BATTLEFIELD AREA INTO ZONES. There can be a handful or many depending on the size of the conflict. Only use as many as you think that you will need. The PCs will begin in one of these zones along with enemy forces that oppose them. This may be a random placement or against specific enemies depending on the setup and intelligence available to both forces.

Place allies and other enemy forces in the remaining zones. Again base these starting forces according to the information available to them. At this point all forces should be deployed in zones. Draw a rough sketch map of the zones and note which forces are in each one.

2) DETERMINE MATCH UP COMPATIBILITY IN EACH ZONE. ( except the one the PCs are in) This is a rough level compatibility test. Look at factors such as numbers/ratio, individual prowess of combatants, special abilities, etc. This is where we determine if there is enough of a mismatch to apply modifiers to the conflict. A positive modifier means an edge for the PCS allies. A negative modifier means an edge for the PCs enemies. For each zone determine the match-up modifier in a range of 0 to +/- 4.

This is where being familiar with the participants stats is important. Only a severe advantage should get a +/- 4 modifier such as being outnumbered 3 or 4 to 1, or a force of regular men fighting half or more of their number of ogres. Remember special abilities. If the entire enemy force is resistant or largely immune to the other side's attacks (soldiers vs wererats) that would count as a huge advantage.

This is also a good time to assign modifiers for information the players may have that is shared with allies or for good tactical deployment depending on the setup and how much time there is to prepare.

3) FIGHT! Each round determine the status of the battle happening in each zone the PCs are NOT in. Roll 3d6 for each zone of battle applying the modifier for that zone. Use this table to apply the outcome of a round:

3-4 (or less): Allies in severe trouble- enemy gains 3 points
5-8: Allies in trouble-enemy gains 2 points
9-10: Struggle locked but stable- enemy gains 1 point
11-12: Struggle locked but stable- allies gain 1 point
13-16: Enemies in trouble- allies gain 2 points
17-18 (or more): Enemies in severe trouble-allies gain 3 points

The first force in a zone to reach 6 points wins the battle in their zone. Make a note of how the battle in each zone is going. This way you know how the tide is swinging during each round and roughly how long each zone will take to resolve.

4) DEGREES OF VICTORY

Each zone will have a victor. The cost of the victory is determined by the margin ratio:

6-0: clean sweep, no casualties, enemy largely destroyed
6-1: easy victory, 5% casualties, enemy soundly defeated
6-2: victory, 10% casualties, enemy defeated
6-3: tough victory, 30% casualties, enemy defeated
6-4: costly victory, 60% casualties, enemy barely defeated
6-5: pyrrhic victory, 80% casualties, victorious unit broken

5) MOVEMENT BETWEEN ZONES

A unit that achieves victory in its zone can then reinforce friendly units in an adjacent zone. It takes 1 round to move to an adjacent zone. A move across 2 zones would require 2 rounds, etc. All units save a broken unit can move to assist allies. The round after joining an allied unit, the reinforcements add a +1 to +5 modifier to their allies in the new zone depending on what shape they were in. A unit moving to assist after a clean sweep victory would add +5 while a unit following a costly victory would add only +1 for example.

All of this can be determined in prep with notes of what is happening in each zone round by round. Now there is a rough outline of how the battle will progress without PC actions. As the players fight their part of the battle and move to help allies in other zones you have a solid idea on what is happening in each place as the PCs get there. The system isn't that difficult to use at the table if you would prefer the flow of battle to be a surprise each round especially if you have players help make the rolls.

This is still a work in progress and meant to be a simple aide for mass combat in an rpg. There is nowhere near enough detail to make an engaging war game out of it.

This is really good. As you say, it's not "enough" for an entire campaign of war-games, but for the occasional mass-fight it's perfect - I definitely can see mysef using it. I have a a concern however: The party splitting up.

Now some groups will have the party stick together and tackle one zone at a time. However I can see the following happening quite easily:
Party Leader: Legolad and McCrossbowface, I want you to run to the east size of zone 2 and provide archery support. Target their spell-casters, it should swing the balance into our favor. Merlin, zone 4 has collapsed, cast a web or a wall or something to stop the enemy from poring into zone 3, then fireball the heck out of the kobolds in said zone 3. El Bezerko, the orcs of zone 5 are about to break, I want you to lead a frontal assault and rout them. I will stay here in zone 1 and bolster the troops.

Rest of party!: Right!
DM: groan...

 

[ExploderWizard]

This is really good. As you say, it's not "enough" for an entire campaign of war-games, but for the occasional mass-fight it's perfect - I definitely can see mysef using it. I have a a concern however: The party splitting up.

Now some groups will have the party stick together and tackle one zone at a time. However I can see the following happening quite easily:
Party Leader: Legolad and McCrossbowface, I want you to run to the east size of zone 2 and provide archery support. Target their spell-casters, it should swing the balance into our favor. Merlin, zone 4 has collapsed, cast a web or a wall or something to stop the enemy from poring into zone 3, then fireball the heck out of the kobolds in said zone 3. El Bezerko, the orcs of zone 5 are about to break, I want you to lead a frontal assault and rout them. I will stay here in zone 1 and bolster the troops.

Rest of party!: Right!
DM: groan...

Don't sweat it. In order for this to work you need the actual stats of the involved forces anyhow or else you couldn't determine how they match up.

Count each zone that has a PC in it as an active one and apply what the PC(s) are doing as a modifier to the conflict.

In your example lets say the PCs allies in zone 3 are roughly evenly matched with the kobolds. Merlin shows up and fireballs a whole bunch of them. Now the kobolds don't have the numbers to evenly match the allies so the allies in zone 3 now how a bonus moving forward. PCs doing heroic stuff should influence the general tide of battle.

A large battle can take a bit of time and splitting the party will generally take MORE time for sure. It can still be worth it and memorable.

 

[Tony Vargas]

**nothing to see here*** move along...

 

[Ancalagon]

Don't sweat it. In order for this to work you need the actual stats of the involved forces anyhow or else you couldn't determine how they match up.

Count each zone that has a PC in it as an active one and apply what the PC(s) are doing as a modifier to the conflict.

In your example lets say the PCs allies in zone 3 are roughly evenly matched with the kobolds. Merlin shows up and fireballs a whole bunch of them. Now the kobolds don't have the numbers to evenly match the allies so the allies in zone 3 now how a bonus moving forward. PCs doing heroic stuff should influence the general tide of battle.

A large battle can take a bit of time and splitting the party will generally take MORE time for sure. It can still be worth it and memorable.

Oh it's just that if the PCs all stay in one zone you only have to "do" one real battle while the other zones are done with quick rolls. If the PCs are involved in every zone, then each zone needs more "attention". For example in zone 2 where the party archers went after the spell casters, well those spellcasters are probably going to retaliate etc etc. Mind you, the roll can still be used to describe what is happening in the background of that zone, and even if the PCs weren't able to take the enemy spellcasters out, if said spellcasters focus on the PCs it's still helping the PCs' allies.

Have you had the chance to use this system yet? I'm saving it for potential future use