D&D 3E/3.5 Thoughts of a 3E/4E powergamer on starting to play 5E

[thecasualoblivion]

Why are you arguing at all? There are many ways to have fun with D&D. I just lost a group because player expectation and DM expectation didn't fit together well enough.
One player expected to win all the time. I expected as DM that PCs adjucate the situation and flee or use other tactics than just go in and fight.

Habit I suppose, is some of it. The rest is failing to understand what people's problem is, or maybe I'm just trying to be optimistic about thinking D&D players are different than what I see in this thread.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I apologize if I mistook your comments for those of someone else. Could you point out where I was mistaken? Let me help-
A. Didn't you call other gamers who did not optimize, "shlubs?"
B. Didn't you state that you were usually the face of your party for social interactions, despite the fact that you optimized for combat and didn't have social skills or ability scores?
C. Didn't you state that your preferred enjoyment was kicking the butt in combat (most of the butt, if not all)?

Again, I read posts quickly so I apologize for any misattribution. And no, I would love for you to play 5e. However I do not believe I would enjoy playing 5e with you, as I occasionally enjoy social encounters and I enjoy having my own portion of said butt to kick.

There's two ways to talk to NPCs, using game mechanics or the old fashioned way, back how we did it in my 2E days. I excel at the second way.

 

[Mathilda]

Since I brought it up.... my definition of schub...

Lowkey incorrectly assumed it is a player that does not optimize

A schlub is a bad player

A bad player is a player that does not contribute to the achievement of the PARTY's mission or goal.

This includes actions that hamper and undermines said goals.

Examples:

1. By choice or character limitations, they do not help in combat

2. They take an inordinate amount of time to do individual tasks that are not party mission centric

3. They roleplay steal or conceal information from the party

If your character is not part of the solution, then your character is part of the problem. One can substitute player for character

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I wasn't saying it wasn't strong so much as not feeling that sacrificing offense(damage or control) to do so was worth it.

Control comes built into many tanking builds. The Life Cleric 1/Enchanter X I described has a ton of built-in control. He could potentially keep up to five enemies occupied simultaneously: two with Tasha's Uncontrollable Laughter (thanks to Split Spell he gets two targets at 11th level), another with grappling (other hand is busy holding a shield so can't grapple), yet another with Hypnotic Gaze, and a fifth with his Instinctive Charm reaction (make it hit the guy he's got grappled). That is without spending any serious resources like Hypnotic Pattern/Wall of Force.

If you think defense isn't worth it, well, hopefully you'll learn better once the opposition starts getting tougher. Adapt or die.

Edit: I'm not trying to criticize your playstyle BTW. Mostly responding to your OP about glass cannons being the only viable way to play 5E, and randomness having a heavy impact such that "being that random I never feel in control of my own destiny". My experience suggests that both of these two things come from the fact that you're apparently optimizing for damage output, which is a suboptimization in 5E. Seriously, just play a Sentinel or Mobile Moon Druid who exploits Conjure Animals in major battles, or Fog Cloud + Earth Elemental form. The dice will have close to zero impact, and you won't be anything like a glass cannon. If you want to play a controller/tank/summoner/healer, Moon Druids make excellent, excellent tanks and well at the other roles too.

 

[Umbran]

I'm glad I'm not playing with a bunch of easily offended anti-powergaming SJWs like you and your group.

You know, where I come from, "SJW" stands for "Social Justice Warrior", and aside from how weak it is to compare various ideas on powergaming to things like racism and such, this seems to be an attempt to be derogatory, and that's decidedly not cool.

Fortunately for me, I've discovered this incredible thing called "tact"

But, apparently, you decided not to use it here. That is perhaps an interesting choice, but not a constructive one. Please, apply that tact in the future. Thanks.

That, really, goes for EVERYONE. Tact. Respect. These are not difficult, so you don't have a lot of excuse not to use them.

 

[Caliban]

You do see where you contradict yourself?

If not, then we are at an impasse and I am done

There was no contradiction. If you cannot see that, then please. Be done.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Perhaps you should view it differently. Allow me to use analogy. Imagine playing 5e was similar to liking cars. You like cars, and other people like cars, so you believe everyone should like cars the same way.

But I don't believe everyone should like D&D the same way. Those are your words, not mine.

Now, you enjoy optimizing and racing your cars. That's fun for you! You work out the best ways to get cars, strip out the weight, get the best engine, and otherwise make the perfect car for certain racing conditions. One day, you go to a local car club. Except they are into restoring classic cars. They can speak the same lingo as you, and they can appreciate your fun, but they don't share it. You all love cars, but their fun doesn't come from getting a car to go fast, it comes from restoring old cars. There's no badwrongfun- just two different groups of people, who both love cars, focusing on different things. So long as neither group is interested in telling the other that their love of cars is wrong, there's no problem. But it is also likely that the racer won't have as much fun in the classic car club, and the classic car enthusiast won't have as much fun in a racing car club.

I don't see where this has anything to do with D&D. You seem to be claiming that people who powergame and people who don't can't enjoy the same game. I don't agree. It might be true for you, but I see that as your problem. I don't see where it needs to be my problem as well. I don't believe there is a problem. It really sounds like you want the kids to get off your damn lawn.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Well, as has been pointed out numerous times, I am not the only one stating this. These debates are always the same; non-power gamers saying, "Thanks, but no thanks," and power gamers continuing to demand that, no, everyone else is wrong, and they should just get over it despite their own experience.

But you're right. I would ask that you get off my lawn. And while I have had power gamers at my table, they have either adapted with grace, or they have been puzzled as to why they were never asked back.

I'm not saying everyone is wrong, I'm saying you and a few other close minded people in this thread are wrong. I say this in the hope and belief that most people playing D&D aren't like you.

I've been playing since the mid-90s during the 2E era, and my play style is more or less the same now as it was back then. I can honestly say I've never had a problem at a table, so you telling me my playstyle is a problem does not match my experience playing D&D.