D&D 5E Absence of Low Level Summoning Spells

[Amrûnril]

Looking at all the responses, I still think a low level summoning spell would be a good option for conjuration wizards to have, but I think I at least understand why the developers chose to avoid it.

However, after two years, i think they know how to implement low level summoning spells and or how to create a summoning subclass...
I really hope to see in the feature not only the implementation of a summoning subclass for wizard/druid/warlock but also the implementation of a viable companion also for the ranger and druid.

Do you think there's a need for a new summoning-oriented subclass? It seems to me like conjuration school for wizards would fill this niche fairly well with access to low level summoning spells.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I’ve been looking at the Conjuration subclass, and it seems odd to me that Wizards can’t learn any creature summoning spells (with the exception of Find Familiar) until they gain access to 4^th level spells. I understand that there are other types of conjuration spells, and that conjurers are free to use spells from other schools of magic, but an elemental summoning wizard seems to be one of the main archetypes this subclass is intended to support, and it therefore seems strange to be unable to begin moving in this direction until 7^th level.

Furthermore, looking at the specific spells in question, it’s difficult to see any balance reason for this limitation. The instant a conjurer does reach level 7 and learn Conjure Minor Elementals, he can summon elementals up to CR2 or up to 8 lower CR elementals, so seems like there could easily be a level 2 or 3 version of this spell summoning a smaller number/CR of elementals. For that matter, a druid can already summon beasts of exactly the same CRs with a level 3 spell (and can do so with a single action instead of taking a full minute). Given that the CR should account for any additional strength or abilities, I’m not sure I see any reason for Conjure Minor Elementals to require a higher level spell (especially given that the full Conjure Elementals spell, going up to CR5 creatures, is only a level 5 spell).

My question, essentially, is this: Is the absence of low level summoning spells on the wizard list a deliberate design choice (and if so what was the reasoning behind it?), or was it simply an oversight by the developers (and if so what house rules or homebrew would you consider to fill this gap)?

I'm guessing that this is at least partly because of the wizard's 18th level Spell Mastery. Infinite Unseen Servant is bad enough. (And by "bad" I actually mean "awesome." But bad from the 5E designers' inferred viewpoint.) Infinite Conjure Mephit or Animate Shadow would be even worse. ("Worse.")

 

[gweinel]

Do you think there's a need for a new summoning-oriented subclass? It seems to me like conjuration school for wizards would fill this niche fairly well with access to low level summoning spells.

Sure, just adding 5-6 low - mid level summoning spells could fill the gap. Although a specialized "call my cool friends to help me" subclass for wizard/warlock/druid would also awesome.

 

[gweinel]

One of my DMs invested a 1st level summoning spell on the Wiz/Sorc list.

It's a one action casting time that summons a CR 1/4 creature (determined by the DM; player has no input). Lasts for Concentration up to 1 hour. Cast as a 2nd level slot for CR 1/2, 3rd level slot for CR 1, 4th level slot for CR 2, and so on. (Caps out at CR 6 for an 8th level slot.)

DM selection keeps you from gaming the system by summoning the perfect creature for the situation.

I really liked the idea. Another thing that could be done in order to balance the summoning (if it is too strong), is to have the first round after the casting of the spell is to "convince" the monster to fight with her. This could be an arcana/persuasion/deception/animal handling/intimidation check depending the summoned creature. If it succeed it works as intended (the monster aids the caster), if it fails the monster is in confusion and take random actions.

 

[SkidAce]

I'm guessing that this is at least partly because of the wizard's 18th level Spell Mastery. Infinite Unseen Servant is bad enough. (And by "bad" I actually mean "awesome." But bad from the 5E designers' inferred viewpoint.) Infinite Conjure Mephit or Animate Shadow would be even worse. ("Worse.")

For my world, that's fantastic! With very few NPCs of that level, the player actually getting to that level and infiniting shadows would be awesome (a challenge).

So functionally, they can encounter the evil 18th level shadowmancer, the pinnacle of shadowyness, and determine how to counter such an awesome ability.

And now that they have worked out the limitations, they have done my work for me.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I think they mean for it to be something the wizard (or druid or cleric) to work into and aspire for. The necromancer isn't making zombies at 1st level either.

My biggest conjuring complaint is that planar ally sure seems like it was written so that a warlock could use it (and I remember the warlock's ally from 4e), but it isn't on the warlock's list (I let the warlocks in my campaigns have it, but the players know there is no chance of conning the ally into working for free or even at a discount price).

 

[discosoc]

Not sure why this is. Having said that, I'm glad they don't have more summon spells. As it stands, those are some of the most easily broken with the way 5e handles CR and character levels. Our group ran through a just-for-fun Tiamat fight once, and they were able to kill her in 3 rounds, largely due to abusing summoning spells.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Not sure why this is. Having said that, I'm glad they don't have more summon spells. As it stands, those are some of the most easily broken with the way 5e handles CR and character levels. Our group ran through a just-for-fun Tiamat fight once, and they were able to kill her in 3 rounds, largely due to abusing summoning spells.

Doesn't Tiamat get like 7 divine words a day? It seems like that would negate any summoning (and it is a bonus action spell, so casting it wouldn't cost her a lot of offense):

Regardless of its current hit points, a celestial, an elemental, a fey, or a fiend that fails its save is forced back to its plane of origin (if it isn’t there already) and can’t return to your current plane for 24 hours by any means short of a wish spell.

Anything from planar ally, conjure celestial, fey, elemental, minor elementals, woodland creatures, find familiar, even conjure animals (which summons fey spirits in animal form) would have to beat Tiamat's undoubtedly high spell DC or get banished. [Oddly enough, find steed's steed would not be affect since it is a "spirit" and not one of the mentioned categories.]

I suspect a party with a lot of summoning could give one of the elemental princes's a hard day, but I think that same party shouldn't be able to get out of the gate with Tiamat.

 

[discosoc]

Doesn't Tiamat get like 7 divine words a day? It seems like that one of those would negate any summoning:

Regardless of its current hit points, a celestial, an elemental, a fey, or a fiend that fails its save is forced back to its plane of origin (if it isn’t there already) and can’t return to your current plane for 24 hours by any means short of a wish spell.

Anything from planar ally, conjure celestial, fey, elemental, minor elementals, woodland creatures, find familiar, even conjure animals (which summons fey spirits in animal form) would have to beat Tiamat's undoubtedly high spell DC or get banished. [Oddly enough, find steed's steed would not be affect since it is a "spirit" and not one of the mentioned categories.]

I suspect a party with a lot of summoning could give one of the elemental princes's a hard day, but I think that same party shouldn't be able to get out of the gate with Tiamat.

It's been a while since we played with it, but I recall Tiamat having 3 divine words. What we did was have the druid cast Conjure Animals (Elk x 8+more for higher spell levels) which sometimes went that same turn, and others had to wait for the next turn (depending on how their initiative was rolled). If they went that same turn, it was a 25% chance to hit for each (+5 hit against AC 20), and damage was (3d6+3)/2 because of resistance. For a base level spell, that's only about 14 damage, but for a max level spell (we were using 3 level 18 characters) that's roughly 8 hits for about 42 damage. That's also 8 saves which, although unlikely to fail, can help burn away her 5 legendary saves if she botches a few.

Yes, a divine word basically destroys that, as does a good breath weapon or even a solid hit against the druid, but it forces tiamat to deal with the dozen or two elk running roughshod over her, while the paladin was smiting and the monk was wailing on her. Between the elk, the stunning fists, and possibly banishment and banishing smite (we did several fights, with tiamat at various "power levels"), she was usually out of or close to being out of legendary saves by turn 2, and often knocked prone or stunned by turn 3.

Granted, part of this is because of the way the tiamat fight is setup so that she only really gains use of all 5 heads after 5 turns (1 head per turn, if I remember), but still. The fights were much harder and always went well past turn 5 if the druid didn't use summon spells. And that was just a group with 3 characters.

 

[Mephista]

Think about the poor Warlock. They don't get anything until level 9. And then? They have to spend an Investment slot to get it, and can only cast the spell 1/day. And no Conjure Fiend spell. tis a sad day.

Lets face it. If you want a summoner, you go Land Druid. Pretty much every class has its own unique playstyle and way of doing things. No one does summoning like a Land druid. So, if you want a dedicated summoner for a character, that's what Land Druid is for. To me, that is the why of it. Clerics can summon spirit weapons, so that's alos an option, but with the spirit weapons and blade barriers? They enhance your bashing with the mace.

Every sub-class is different. Conjurer wizards aren't the summoning masters. Its druids.