Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: The ranger, revised... overcompensation?

[Edwin Suijkerbuijk]

Some tweets about the ranger

@FDUScifiFantasy I feel the Natural Explorer feature is too powerful for 1st
[MENTION=4036]Jeremy[/MENTION]ECrawford Initial designs, including the new ranger, are almost always too powerful. We tune them in development.
[MENTION=29251]Exe[/MENTION]ntrik137 For the new UA ranger, is it the intent for a beast ally to learn feats with its ASIs? Alternatively, would you allow it?
[MENTION=4036]Jeremy[/MENTION]ECrawford No on both counts
[MENTION=7108]Critter[/MENTION]_Bitic Apologies if repeat. Does Beast Master companion in UE rework scale with char level or Ranger level? RAW reads as character
[MENTION=4036]Jeremy[/MENTION]ECrawford The UA ranger hasn't been tuned for multiclassing yet. We tune a class for multiclassing after the design moves into development.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Thoughts?

My thoughts: calling it a "bear grenade" makes it 10x cooler.

 

[Keaerin]

My thoughts: calling it a "bear grenade" makes it 10x cooler.

I was thinking bearnado personally lol

 

[nswanson27]

There was a 9000 page thread on this topic that got deleted in which all of these things were discussed ad nauseam.

I myself am willing to reserve judgment until I see how these features play out at the table. I am prone to agree with some of the people who contend that a few of the features synergize a bit too well with certain other classes (e.g. every Assassin is going to want a 1-level Ranger dip). I would probably move those features to level 2 at minimum so that it requires a heavier investment.

I wonder if this wasn't intended to buff assassin a little. Currently all the conditions needed for auto-crits to happen seems too circumstantial IMO. I don't think I've actually ever played with anyone as an assassin. Everyone goes arcane trickster.
Maybe the could just give a + to initiative, rather than advantage if the boost is too much?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Advantage on initiative is not too bad. Less than a +4 bonus. The calculations we did are lost now but you can do it again.
The new ranger needs to be toned down. Bur remember... shortly before 5e hit the shelves, the playtest version was extremely powerful.
Between memorizing spells, even leaving slots open till later (the wording allowed that), protection fighting style be usable while dual wielding and on attacks against the ranger himself, the guy was sick in battle. Primal awareness actually allowed to gain directions like it does in the new UA and so the ranger was also very good at protecting people against supernatural threats.
So even if the ranger needs some tweaking it should not be overdone. First level abilities need to be pushed back a little, maybe even nerfed a bit. Maybe the beasts need some testing.
The current ranger including the beastmaster is not badly balanced actually... but what remained from the playtest version just feels wrong and clunky...

 

[Erechel]

I wonder if this wasn't intended to buff assassin a little. Currently all the conditions needed for auto-crits to happen seems too circumstantial IMO. I don't think I've actually ever played with anyone as an assassin. Everyone goes arcane trickster.
Maybe the could just give a + to initiative, rather than advantage if the boost is too much?

you are sooooo wrong. There is a lot of assassins, and I at least never saw anybody playing an arcane trickster at all. The assassin certaintly don't need more boosts (I have a halfling one on my table)

 

[CapnZapp]

Advantage on initiative is not too bad. Less than a +4 bonus. The calculations we did are lost now but you can do it again.

The math behind advantage has been explored many many times. It's actually a variable bonus between nearly nothing and +5.

 

[Demorgus]

In my work campaign, the group's ranger has changed over to the revised ranger. He was just leveling up to 3rd, so we're seeing how it flows. Before this had come out, he was going to take the much maligned Beastmaster Archetype. He seems pretty happy so far with the Beast Conclave.

 

[Lord Twig]

The old Ranger was underpowered. The beastmaster was extremely underpowered. I played a 13th level Ranger Beastmaster in a one-shot game and the Ranger needed the companion to do anything resembling reasonable damage, and then was still behind the Fighter by a considerable margin. However, the companion spent most of the time near death and having to be protected, which put the Ranger even further behind. It also consumed a ton of resources in healing and buffs just to make it semi-viable.

The UA Revised Ranger is now about middle of the road for the character classes. So please don't encourage any nerfing.

As for "dipping", I don't think it is that big of a problem at most tables. Sure munchkins and powergamers might play that way, but most players don't. Nerfing a class to spite powergamers is what crippled the Ranger in the first place. All that said the simple fix is to just switch Natural Explorer and Primeval Awareness.

Primeval Awareness at 1st level just lets you avoid some animal encounters in a very flavorful, rangery, way and know the general direction and distance of your favored enemies. And conveniently the Ranger gets Favored Enemy at 1st level. Plus since it no longer requires a spell slot there is no need to wait till at least 2nd level when the Ranger gets spells.

This moves Natural Explorer to 3rd level, which is when you choose a Ranger conclave. This is a significant investment into a class. Consider that 3rd level is when primary casters are getting 2nd level spells, the Fighter is getting Improved Critical, Combat Superiority dice or spells and the Paladin is getting immunity to disease, Oath spells, and Channel Divinity. By 3rd level a class is truly supposed to come into their own, so this is a good level for Natural Explorer.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The math behind advantage has been explored many many times. It's actually a variable bonus between nearly nothing and +5.

Yes it is. But against a variable target you can take the average. But obviously you don't know how math works and such. Compare it against a static number and you know what is better. Too bad it was lost but we had it calculated. I won't do it for you again.
Actually what is your problem understanding that you can compare a bonus against advantage and look what is better?