D&D 5E I think the era of 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons had it right. (not talking about the rules).

[Shasarak]

That is what they said at one point, and they were probably right at that juncture. In 2e and definitely portions of 3e there was a lot of glut of campaign settings and modules. I think some things have changed though. A surprising number of people, though I'm not one of them, are playing in game stores and such and going through the adventurer's league and such. This has some bit of a "shared experience" that seems to be appealing to people. I can talk to someone about "Storm King's Thunder" and they probably know what I'm talking about and maybe are playing/running it. It's at least more ubiquitous in my experience right now (anecdotal as it is) than say Red Hand of Doom was in 3e days.

If you go way back I recall stories that Gygax at first didn't really expect modules to sell, he thought everyone would want to run their own worlds, create their own fantasy experiences, etc. And he's not wrong, but there's also something to be said for ease of use and that sort of shared experience thing.

Popular adventures started early, I believe Keep on the Borderlands sold into the millions of copies. Temple of Elemental Evil was also a popular one. I guess you can make your data tell you whatever you want to see.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Popular adventures started early, I believe Keep on the Borderlands sold into the millions of copies. Temple of Elemental Evil was also a popular one. I guess you can make your data tell you whatever you want to see.

KotBL really didn't sell any. It was included in the Basic set. That's why everyone has it.

 

[Shasarak]

This really depends on the table and the hypothetical player we are talking about. I've played most editions, Pathfinder up to a point, etc. I'm not intimidated to be thrown into virtually any RPG at some level. That said, if a group is driven by optimization as an example, you can quickly disensentivize other players that also might be optimizers, but if the amount of options they need to understand is too vast they may just say no.

Once again, I'm with you on your argument, if it were any table I was running I cater towards the people at hand, especially if they are new to the game. I'll pare back options and build the game around the expectations and goals of players that are here today, but that is far from every table. I was just reading some blog last night with a 25 year old man getting angry at a 9 year old at a public game store for trying to hug his enemies. If I hadn't seen that level of asshattery myself in real life (grown man angry at a kid for being a kid) I'm not sure if I'd believe it, but what I'm saying is a hedge my bets. Less game complexity just seems to win more people over more often in my anecdotal experience.

Haha, maybe the guy thought that they were not supposed to be using the optional "hug" moves.

 

[JeffB]

KotBL really didn't sell any. It was included in the Basic set. That's why everyone has it.

It was in 2 different Basic sets over the course of about 3 years. Absolutely many were sold that way. However B1 were sold with Holmes Basic sets for the majority of it's print runs, and the Moldvay set was replaced 2 years later with the much better selling Mentzer set, which had it's own adventure.

B2 was all over every book store shelf, department store (and holiday wish book), and on cardstock hangers at KayBee and Toys R Us everywhere.

 

[Felicitas27]

Please don't pull the "best selling edition" ever crock on me. If you are going to use that then you need to gather all the factors that goes along with that. Last time I heard it was best selling PHB, not edition as a whole. Just because you sell alot of these books doesn't mean you have more people playing the game.

That is a true statement; however, if you will allow me to introduce my personal experience as more anecdotal evidence in a thread full of anecdotal evidence: I am now finally playing this game because for the first time, it is widely available and welcoming to all. That is my perception, as a 50-year-old woman. In the 1980's, it was especially intimidating for me to find people to play with as the few I met were not at all interested in taking a noob under their wings and my own friends not into the idea of D&D in general (the perceptions ran the gamut from "isn't that satanism?" to "looks like a kid's game").

In the past decade when I had family and other obligations to juggle, I never saw any large-scale movement of D&D play until the last few years. It's gotten very big recently, I mean it is everywhere. In my city people are booking rooms in the local gaming stores all over the city and the AL I play in has come close to having to turn people away several times I've been there.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

That is a true statement; however, if you will allow me to introduce my personal experience as more anecdotal evidence in a thread full of anecdotal evidence: I am now finally playing this game because for the first time, it is widely available and welcoming to all. That is my perception, as a 50-year-old woman. In the 1980's, it was especially intimidating for me to find people to play with as the few I met were not at all interested in taking a noob under their wings and my own friends not into the idea of D&D in general (the perceptions ran the gamut from "isn't that satanism?" to "looks like a kid's game").

In the past decade when I had family and other obligations to juggle, I never saw any large-scale movement of D&D play until the last few years. It's gotten very big recently, I mean it is everywhere. In my city people are booking rooms in the local gaming stores all over the city and the AL I play in has come close to having to turn people away several times I've been there.

Let me add my experience as someone who walked away from AD&D around the Player's Option era, skipped 3E and 4E entirely (except for a total of maybe eight hours of 4E play at a friend's home), and picked up 5E shortly after it came out: it does seem to attract more grognards than other WotC editions did. I saw guys who hadn't played D&D since the 90's driving three to four hours to play 5E with old friends. That obviously never happened to them with 3E or 4E.

Anecdotal, but still a data point.

P.S. BTW, on the subject of inclusivity, I really appreciate that the art in 5E is less... pornographic. I love AD&D but when I actually open the books and review the art, it's mildly traumatic. That change is unambiguously an improvement IMO.

 

[Corpsetaker]

Once again, I'm with you on your argument, if it were any table I was running I cater towards the people at hand, especially if they are new to the game. I'll pare back options and build the game around the expectations and goals of players that are here today, but that is far from every table.

You are doing exactly what D&D was designed for. You pick and choose what you want to use to accommodate the level of your players.

 

[Corpsetaker]

That is a true statement; however, if you will allow me to introduce my personal experience as more anecdotal evidence in a thread full of anecdotal evidence: I am now finally playing this game because for the first time, it is widely available and welcoming to all. That is my perception, as a 50-year-old woman. In the 1980's, it was especially intimidating for me to find people to play with as the few I met were not at all interested in taking a noob under their wings and my own friends not into the idea of D&D in general (the perceptions ran the gamut from "isn't that satanism?" to "looks like a kid's game").

In the past decade when I had family and other obligations to juggle, I never saw any large-scale movement of D&D play until the last few years. It's gotten very big recently, I mean it is everywhere. In my city people are booking rooms in the local gaming stores all over the city and the AL I play in has come close to having to turn people away several times I've been there.

I'm glad you are playing the game but you aren't describing anything that is 5th edition specific. Every edition of D&D has been for beginners. You aren't required to know each and every option in order to play the game so I don't buy your argument. You may feel that way but I can assure you you could come into any edition with ease. It's limiting yourself to what you feel you can handle until you become experienced enough to handle more options.

 

[Parmandur]

I guess, if you take away all the crap options then surely what ever is left must be "better".

More focused; ever had an In-N-Out burger? It's a work of art.

 

[Parmandur]

When did playing a RPG and watching TV or eating at a restaurant become a similar activity?

They really aren't; analogy's can only go so far. Restaurants have been around for millenia: there have been major advances, but there is a lot of experience there. Most of the guys who were there when RPGs were invented are still alive: clearly the hobby is still working out how to per are as a business, and WotC is contributing to that with the 5E model as a test.