D&D 5E I think the era of 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons had it right. (not talking about the rules).

[Sacrosanct]

It highly depends on what kind of books do you want to see. As far as I'm concerned, no, they absolutely didn't find a happy medium, because they didn't find a way so far to put out material that's not just FR and not APs.

I'd wait to see how VGtM will turn out and the "big mechanical expansion". Still, my biggest gripe is not the lack of pure crunch, it's the lack of support for other settings and their thematic crunch. I'd be happy, If they'd do something like the planeshift series, from time-to-time for supporting other settings and/or organizing better the setting content in their APs, like Paizo does. Oh, and using other parts of FR for their APs, nut just the Sword Coast, if they want to support that setting through just APs.

But I said these things many times before. If others are not interested in other settings and happy with the current products' content and berth, it's okay. But please understand that not everyone is.

I'm not against the slow release schedule, I'm not against the desire for avoiding bloat. I don't want them to stop doing their APs. I just wish they'd put out SOME content, even in small quantities, that I'm interested in. It's not about the quantity of content they're putting out, it's about the kind of content.

I'll reference you to my post above this one. They have finite resources to put out material. They can put out more material, but quality most assuredly would suffer. So it's a matter of prioritizing + business approach.

Here's how I imagine the discussion going at WoTC: "Ok, the core 3 books are obviously the most important. We need to devote our resources into making those three high quality material, because the entire game is built on that foundation. Once those are complete, we need to focus on our business model, and AL play is critical to that, so we'll work on putting out AL material and keep people in the FLGS playing those adventures. Yes, there are people who want every campaign setting we've ever done, and we have people who want a bunch of smaller adventures, and people who want a lot more monsters, and people who want more classes/subclasses/races, etc. Prioritization of these will be on which of these will be used by the most players. I.e., why would we spend our resources in creating a Spelljammer campaign book before we do Dark Sun or another monster book?"

"Ok, so we can only put out a few items each year, and we're doing it based on what the most amount of people will play. What about all those people who want more niche items?"
"Here's this thing we'll call the 'DM's Guild'...."


TL,DR version: They have limited resources in what they can create, and your interests may not be reflective of the majority's interests and thus are a lower priority for them to create and they logistically CAN'T create it without every other product suffering. For people like you with more niche interests, we have the DM's Guild just for you. I'll never understand the argument of some people who refuse to use any DM's Guild stuff because it's not "officially WoTC and therefore isn't good." What, do you think that the moment someone gets hired by WoTC they suddenly become great designers? Or that if someone isn't employed by WoTC they are horrible designers? That seems an awfully flawed argument to me. Especially since we have actual historical examples of people not employed by TSR/WotC who have put out some iconic material for D&D.

 

[PMárk]

So, they could do a 250+ pages adventure every half a year and numerous AL adventures, but can't a, let's say 32 or 64 pages supplemental pdf for CoS about the wider Ravenloft, or about the parts of the North not discussed in SKT in length? Sorry, won't buy it. Moreover "prioritization" and lack of resources would be always a good excuse for not doing stuff. Why is it that a lot smaller companies could do setting material and interesting supplements? Why is that while currently D&D is the biggest rpg, played by the most people, but it's still can't manage a staff that could do anything else?

Right now it's not, let's say 85-90% core and AP v. 10-15% other. No, it's 100% core and AP and 0% other. Sorry, we will never agree on this, you like the current model, I don't because i believe they could do better with little effort, there are a lot of ways, but no, they did chose the way that made the game a lot less interesting than the older editions. I won't get CGs, even in small drips, I won't get novels, I won't get setting-connected player options, monsters, etc. Congratulations WotC, while you managed to make 5e into a popular trend, you also managed to make it the blandest, most boring edition so far as I'm concerned. Oh well, it looks like i'm just not the target audience of 5e and WotC at all, they don't want to sell stuff to me.

DMsG: I and others already said many times the reasons. The problem is not the individual content's quality, there are excellent contents on DMsG. The problem is: they are not official, not usable on any kind of organized play, would meet a lot of suspicion from the majority of GMs, not designed to be compatible with each other, don't have quality control and not canon as fluff goes. I'm not out of the water with 120 new classes and archetypes I can't use and with 3 distinctive RL guide when WotC could do something at any time that makes all of them irrelevant.

I'll say it the last time: that their strategy makes the game successful in a business sense doesn't mean that the game is evolved into a more interesting one. And I don't see THIS as an either/or question between focusing on something while putting out some other material. You could rationalize the current method as much as you want, it still won't end in books I want to buy and read.

But you know what? I'm tired of this discussion. We obviously have different tastes and I don't want to go over and over again the same stuff. 5e is a good system and I'm sad WotC doesn't make books I want to buy from them. They might be in the future, I'd be happy if they will and buy them. Right now, I think I'll go and play other games whose companies care to put out interesting material and I won't attempt to convince our 3.5e group to switch for 5e, because it doesn't worth it.

I hope it won't be a too big flop for them and their current model when the popculture picks up another geek hobby as the new hot cake.

 

[Parmandur]

So, they could do a 250+ pages adventure every half a year and numerous AL adventures, but can't a, let's say 32 or 64 pages supplemental pdf for CoS about the wider Ravenloft, or about the parts of the North not discussed in SKT in length? Sorry, won't buy it. Moreover "prioritization" and lack of resources would be always a good excuse for not doing stuff. Why is it that a lot smaller companies could do setting material and interesting supplements? Why is that while currently D&D is the biggest rpg, played by the most people, but it's still can't manage a staff that could do anything else?

Right now it's not, let's say 85-90% core and AP v. 10-15% other. No, it's 100% core and AP and 0% other. Sorry, we will never agree on this, you like the current model, I don't because i believe they could do better with little effort, there are a lot of ways, but no, they did chose the way that made the game a lot less interesting than the older editions. I won't get CGs, even in small drips, I won't get novels, I won't get setting-connected player options, monsters, etc. Congratulations WotC, while you managed to make 5e into a popular trend, you also managed to make it the blandest, most boring edition so far as I'm concerned. Oh well, it looks like i'm just not the target audience of 5e and WotC at all, they don't want to sell stuff to me.

DMsG: I and others already said many times the reasons. The problem is not the individual content's quality, there are excellent contents on DMsG. The problem is: they are not official, not usable on any kind of organized play, would meet a lot of suspicion from the majority of GMs, not designed to be compatible with each other, don't have quality control and not canon as fluff goes. I'm not out of the water with 120 new classes and archetypes I can't use and with 3 distinctive RL guide when WotC could do something at any time that makes all of them irrelevant.

I'll say it the last time: that their strategy makes the game successful in a business sense doesn't mean that the game is evolved into a more interesting one. And I don't see THIS as an either/or question between focusing on something while putting out some other material. You could rationalize the current method as much as you want, it still won't end in books I want to buy and read.

But you know what? I'm tired of this discussion. We obviously have different tastes and I don't want to go over and over again the same stuff. 5e is a good system and I'm sad WotC doesn't make books I want to buy from them. They might be in the future, I'd be happy if they will and buy them. Right now, I think I'll go and play other games whose companies care to put out interesting material and I won't attempt to convince our 3.5e group to switch for 5e, because it doesn't worth it.

I hope it won't be a too big flop for them and their current model when the popculture picks up another geek hobby as the new hot cake.

We know that WotC aims for 100,000 sales per book they put out; anything less than that, third party is the name of the game. I am having fun, and so is everybody else I know; not finding anything bland about the releases so far, and the DMs Guild is young, so to a certain extent it is impossible to know what itnwil evolve into.

 

[darjr]

WotC doesn't put out the AL adventures.

 

[PMárk]

We know that WotC aims for 100,000 sales per book they put out; anything less than that, third party is the name of the game. I am having fun, and so is everybody else I know; not finding anything bland about the releases so far, and the DMs Guild is young, so to a certain extent it is impossible to know what itnwil evolve into.

I'd have zero problems if they'd officially outsource their settings for 3rd parties like they did with 3e RL. But I said that a couple times too. Don't want to do RL? License it to Onyx Path! Spelljammer is too niche? Let's see if Kobold Press would want to pick it up! You could find reasons to not do basically anything in any other way they currently doing but it doesn't make their method the one true way. And again that something is making more money doesn't mean it is a better, or a more interesting rpg product. sorry, I'm not an employee of them, if they don't make books that I'm interested in, then i don't care how much people plays their current storyline.

Aside from that you likely just strengthened the notion that I won't get anything that interests me from WotC, because it's "too niche". It's exactly the problem with big companies. After a point they won't do anything that is "niche".

I don't say they won't do material, or use the DMsG in more active ways, or do outsourcing in the future. I hope they will, but right now they just not.

Also, I'm still not saying their adventures are bad, regardless of how i like CoS's take on RL. It's just not enough as setting material and aside from PotA neither of them has any significant thematic player options. OotA is not enough as an Underdark supplement, SKT is not enough as a North Faerun book, CoS is definitely not enough as a RL book. Also, I don't want to pick together a setting from 10 different 250+ pages adventure book. Even the APs with setting material+supplements model is could be done much better, Paizo proved that.

I know someone will bring up the old material, but we're just running in circles at this point. The old material is not compatible, not updated for the system and not advanced in lore. I think it's their job to update their settings and the settings thematic classes/prcs, monsters, rules, etc, not mine.

WotC doesn't put out the AL adventures.

As far as I'm aware the adventures not related to the current storyline are on the DMsG.

 

[Shasarak]

Prioritization of these will be on which of these will be used by the most players. I.e., why would we spend our resources in creating a Spelljammer campaign book before we do Dark Sun or another monster book?"

Because Spelljammer is 10 times better then Dark Sun?

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I'd have zero problems if they'd officially outsource their settings for 3rd parties

That's basically what they have done with the DM's Guild - given third parties access to make Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft materials.

It's still new enough they are seeing how it works out, and yeah they haven't opened every setting yet, but that is sensible - like testing the temperature of the water before you dive in.

 

[darjr]

As far as I'm aware the adventures not related to the current storyline are on the DMsG.

?

I don't get you. WotC didn't write them or produce them. The AL did.

 

[PMárk]

That's basically what they have done with the DM's Guild - given third parties access to make Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft materials.

It's still new enough they are seeing how it works out, and yeah they haven't opened every setting yet, but that is sensible - like testing the temperature of the water before you dive in.

We really gone through that already a few pages above. If something isn't official license, well, it isn't official. The reason of making something official, or "canon" should i say is to provide a common ground which could be used to produce supplements building on it and even novels. My homebrew RL is not official, because, yes it didn't get the official D&D material stamp and that matters. Without that it's just fanfic. The outsourced 3e RL material was official, what you write for DMsG is not. If someone would get an official license for a setting, then publishes the material on DMsG, that's official license, what I put up, using the same setting is simply not. If you don't get the distinction, fine! I already wrote down my problems with DMsG material, just a few posts earlier, won't do that again in length. You say A, I say B, we won't agree, I'm okay with that. If you don't care about my problems (quality control, playtesting, lack of coherency between products, setting canon as common ground, usability in organized play, etc.), then you just won't get my standpoint and that's fine also!

For me DMsG, as it is now, and regardless of any specific publication's quality, is an attempt from WotC to do material, without really doing material. It's not outsourcing, it's taking a fee from you for the right to using their settings for your fanfic and publish it on their platform for money, instead on some obscure blog or fansite for free. It's a good idea, but it's just not real licensing. Yes it's a convenient solution for them for a lot of reasons. For example, they wouldn't have to taking into consideration anything on DMsG, when writing an AP and they own the rights for everything. It's just not enough for me, because I'm caring about system and story coherency between products and yes, I'm caring about setting canons. I'd also like to use the material I paid for anywhere, not just in a home game if the GM approves.

?

I don't get you. WotC didn't write them or produce them. The AL did.

Doesn't WotC manages the AL? Isn't AL an official WotC product?

 

[darjr]

Yes and yes? But that wasn't what I was responding too. No wotc staff writes or edits or draws any of it. As far as I know they only set the area and broad guidelines. As far as I know the authors of a given season don't even know what the new adventure is. Just the themes and place they can set them in.