FormerlyHemlock
Hero
It comes across as snark, not sympathy.
D&D 5E Wanting more content doesn't always equate to wanting tons of splat options so please stop.
- Thread starter Corpsetaker
- Start date
It comes across as snark, not sympathy.
Two hours and 33 pages later..
I see a lot of inflexibility, fear of creativity, hyperfocus on balance, and apples to oranges comparisons. Comparing current 3PP offerings from the established 3PP houses to anything from 3E is a bad idea. 3E, by nature of the system (focus on superhero instead of hero, hyperfocus on balance, etc.), resulted in an exponential increase in character power and consequently, a ton of splat books as Tom, Dick, Harry, and Ed all jumped on the OGL train. Some very talented developers rose above the rest and you still see their contributions in 5E today because they do work for companies that were established by longtime TSR and early WotC developers - Frog God Games/Necromancer Games, Kobold Press, Sasquatch Games, Green Ronin.
I allow 3PP at my table and let my players be the first judge of it (because I trust them - they just want to have fun - and no, I don't have a set group of people I know all the time, I have new players in and out every few sessions depending on availability, interest, small character arcs) and then I will evaluate it and we'll talk it over and tweak it as works best for the game. Oddly enough, the stuff I don't allow at my table is largely WotC-created. And if my players want a specific feature or characteristic or trait or whatever that isn't already in the material, we'll create it so that it works with the game and the story. I would be doing my players and myself a disservice if I didn't try to work out what they were hoping for - my players might not have a good time and it also wouldn't stretch my creative muscles.
There is even some decent stuff on the DMsGuild (which seems to be categorically condemned by a lot of the respondents in this thread and that isn't without merit because there is some total trash on there, but if you look at the feedback those authors get, you will see they are getting good advice and feedback from DMs and players alike). I tend to avoid the DMsGuild because most of the stuff up there doesn't interest me because I can create it on my own as I need for my games.
I understand where the focus on balance comes from but I take very little stock in something being balanced. The players aren't always going to be able to win every fight or get the biggest and best loot. That is very much an MMO attitude. I'm telling a story where the players overcome adversity and overwhelming odds to be the heroes, to save the princess and kill the dragon (or quite possibly get killed in the process because it isn't easy to be a hero (not a superhero, a hero)). The game is what you and your players make it. If a DM is resistant for fear of players trying to take advantage or lack of confidence, discuss it with them and provide a cogent, meaningful reason for them to go outside their comfort zone - offer to work with them and let them know that if either of you feel like it isn't working out you will revisit it and adapt accordingly. The DM-player relationship is a partnership that requires compromise to be successful.
Anyway, this entire thread has been amusing and infuriating.
I see a lot of inflexibility, fear of creativity, hyperfocus on balance, and apples to oranges comparisons. Comparing current 3PP offerings from the established 3PP houses to anything from 3E is a bad idea. 3E, by nature of the system (focus on superhero instead of hero, hyperfocus on balance, etc.), resulted in an exponential increase in character power and consequently, a ton of splat books as Tom, Dick, Harry, and Ed all jumped on the OGL train. Some very talented developers rose above the rest and you still see their contributions in 5E today because they do work for companies that were established by longtime TSR and early WotC developers - Frog God Games/Necromancer Games, Kobold Press, Sasquatch Games, Green Ronin.
I allow 3PP at my table and let my players be the first judge of it (because I trust them - they just want to have fun - and no, I don't have a set group of people I know all the time, I have new players in and out every few sessions depending on availability, interest, small character arcs) and then I will evaluate it and we'll talk it over and tweak it as works best for the game. Oddly enough, the stuff I don't allow at my table is largely WotC-created. And if my players want a specific feature or characteristic or trait or whatever that isn't already in the material, we'll create it so that it works with the game and the story. I would be doing my players and myself a disservice if I didn't try to work out what they were hoping for - my players might not have a good time and it also wouldn't stretch my creative muscles.
There is even some decent stuff on the DMsGuild (which seems to be categorically condemned by a lot of the respondents in this thread and that isn't without merit because there is some total trash on there, but if you look at the feedback those authors get, you will see they are getting good advice and feedback from DMs and players alike). I tend to avoid the DMsGuild because most of the stuff up there doesn't interest me because I can create it on my own as I need for my games.
I understand where the focus on balance comes from but I take very little stock in something being balanced. The players aren't always going to be able to win every fight or get the biggest and best loot. That is very much an MMO attitude. I'm telling a story where the players overcome adversity and overwhelming odds to be the heroes, to save the princess and kill the dragon (or quite possibly get killed in the process because it isn't easy to be a hero (not a superhero, a hero)). The game is what you and your players make it. If a DM is resistant for fear of players trying to take advantage or lack of confidence, discuss it with them and provide a cogent, meaningful reason for them to go outside their comfort zone - offer to work with them and let them know that if either of you feel like it isn't working out you will revisit it and adapt accordingly. The DM-player relationship is a partnership that requires compromise to be successful.
Anyway, this entire thread has been amusing and infuriating.
pkt77242
Explorer
It won't be though. There will be things like SCAG, etc. in the mean time. Also there will be tons of 3PP books. Just because you don't use 3PP books/homebrew, doesn't mean that most tables are like you.
Says you. Their market research says differently, otherwise they wouldn't be pursuing that strategy (well unless you think that they are incompetent, but that is a whole other argument). I will further respond to this part down below.
You are (and to be fair most people do).
WoTC is playing the long game. Churning out splat will make some people happy (and probably increase short term revenue) but will also annoy others, but beyond that it will accelerate the demise of the 5E, which will cost the brand long term. Remember that during the playtest time between 4E and 5E there wasn't a whole lot of products to sell, so revenue and profit dried up, and there is no guarantee that 6E will be as good as 5E at keeping the returning players, new players, etc around. WoTC wants an evergreen edition because brand stability is very important, and that combined with everything means that of release is unlikely to change.
Managing a brand is a long-term game, and WoTC is doing it by the textbook (literally). Now that doesn't guarantee that it will work, and it definitely won't make all of its fans happy, but that also doesn't mean that they are doing it wrong, just because they are doing a different release schedule from your preferred version.
*Also I sometimes feel the way that you do, so I get it. I really want a setting book for Dragonlance, it isn't going to happen because it doesn't make business sense for them. I won't get everything that I want, but from a business standpoint it is probably a smart decision.
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Hussar
Legend
Because they're falling apart?
Seriously, though, just because people are willing to settle for current content does not mean that they do not also want new content. You are making an assumption there that isn't backed up by anything.
But, that's not true. I'm making assumptions backed by the past fifteen years of experience.
Every time WOTC has produced large numbers of splats, they have had to change editions. What's the tipping point? 10 supplements? 20? 30? I don't know, but, there is quite apparently a tipping point. And the further back WotC can push that tipping point, the better it is for the health of the hobby.
Do people want more content? Well of course. That can probably go without saying. But, is it a good idea to actually produce that content? Well, apparently not if you care about the long term health of the hobby.
Hussar
Legend
Umm, what's this 2-3 years? We've had SCAG in the first two years, plus the soon to be released Volo's guide and then this potential mechanical book sometime next year. Seems like one per year to me.
Hussar
Legend
But, isn't this PRECISELY what is supposed to happen? You want more content, WotC is not providing that content, so, you mosey on over to another source, buy their book and keep right on playing D&D.
Where's the loss? What's the problem? Presumably you bought your Core 3 books, so, WotC is pretty happy. You're still playing the game, meaning that WotC is losing you as a customer as you haven't, as [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] is claiming would happen, switched games. When WotC eventually does come out with something for you, I imagine you'll buy it, no?
So, where's the problem. You the customer got content that is useful at your table. WotC keeps trucking along. Everything's groovy. Aren't you pretty much a poster child for how this paradigm is supposed to work?
Chaosmancer
Legend
pkt77242
Explorer
We are not that lucky.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
No, I don't agree. Remember, we disagree about a fundamental point. I believe firmly that a majority of players wants some general release content, so my "needs" are not just my own.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Nobody here is asking for large numbers of splats. That's another of your assumptions
