D&D 5E Volo's Guide to Monsters: General Discussion.

Yes. Goblin Nimble Escape could give you advantage every round (great for goblin evokers and bardlocks) plus defensive benefits; variant human Inspiring Leader can easily the whole party 100 HP over the course of a day, and 100 HP is far, far better than 50 damage (PCs tend to have a higher AC and fewer HP than monsters do, so 1 HP goes farther); variant human Sentinel can double a melee rogue's damage (at 10th level, that would be +21 damage where the Aasimar is only getting +10 damage, and the human gets his benefit all day every day instead of just 1/day); variant human Mounted Combatant grants advantage on every attack against Medium creatures if you're riding a Large mount, which also BTW lets you use bigger and more damaging weapons (specifically d12 lances), and it also grants you defensive benefits via your mount's mobility.

Apparently goblins also have some kind of bonus damage once per short rest against taller people, but I don't even care about that because it's going to be puny compared to the power of Nimble Escape.

Nimble escape could give regular advantage for a small number of classes in certain conditions, it’s by no means a guarantee. Even if it was (and would be too good as such) the limited scope inherently makes it less disruptive than the fallen Aasimar. After that you just list the variant human over and over, which has been a source of contention from day one. Do you have any examples that don’t specifically rely on having access to optional feat content?

Even then, many of the examples you posted don’t stand up to any scrutiny. You’re going to have to explain how the rogue/sentinel interaction works, because by my reading the only way it’s useful is if the rogue has the reaction attack triggered while also having advantage.

100 HP is not better than 50 damage, at least not in all cases. Inspiring leader takes time to set up (10 minutes each) and its value is spread over the party. If the wizard is getting focused down, the bonus HP on the cleric aren’t helping. This leads me to the real crux though, is that killing things faster always saves you more HP than by reactively healing it. Doubly so against high-threat monsters, or those with powerful save effects. Lastly, you can stack multiple aasimar damage buffs, and I don’t believe this is the case with Inspiring leader.

Mounted combat is barely worth addressing. Mounts can’t go into a wide number of areas, it only affects medium creatures (which many of the more dangerous foes are not), the larger weapon die works out to be +1-2 at best, and you also have to figure out how to keep your mount from getting hosed by AoE effects, which was a big concern even with the old Ranger’s animal companion. I think your post is the first time I’ve seen the mounted combat feat brought up in positive fashion.

In the end, all of these options are also available for the aasimar character, at the price of missing out on a stat bump or a different feat.

50 - whatever you otherwise would have dealt during the action you used to activate it. So say normally you deal 2D12 + 10 damage in a round via 2 attacks that's what an average of 27 damage? So 50-27 is only 23 total bonus damage over a whole encounter, less if everything is dead before the minute is up.

So no, not over powered.

First off, I put the 50% uptime into my original argument, which is incredibly low, since that means both your attacks would have to miss for ½ the combat rounds, since the ability only requires 1 hit per round to activate. If you assume that most/all attacks hit, it becomes even better than I posted. If you assume it has an 80-100% uptime, then now you’re trading 27 damage for 80-100, along with a CC opener, which cuts the opportunity cost somewhat.
 

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Nimble escape could give regular advantage for a small number of classes in certain conditions, it’s by no means a guarantee. Even if it was (and would be too good as such) the limited scope inherently makes it less disruptive than the fallen Aasimar. After that you just list the variant human over and over, which has been a source of contention from day one. Do you have any examples that don’t specifically rely on having access to optional feat content?

Even then, many of the examples you posted don’t stand up to any scrutiny. You’re going to have to explain how the rogue/sentinel interaction works, because by my reading the only way it’s useful is if the rogue has the reaction attack triggered while also having advantage.

100 HP is not better than 50 damage, at least not in all cases. Inspiring leader takes time to set up (10 minutes each) and its value is spread over the party. If the wizard is getting focused down, the bonus HP on the cleric aren’t helping. This leads me to the real crux though, is that killing things faster always saves you more HP than by reactively healing it. Doubly so against high-threat monsters, or those with powerful save effects. Lastly, you can stack multiple aasimar damage buffs, and I don’t believe this is the case with Inspiring leader.

Mounted combat is barely worth addressing. Mounts can’t go into a wide number of areas, it only affects medium creatures (which many of the more dangerous foes are not), the larger weapon die works out to be +1-2 at best, and you also have to figure out how to keep your mount from getting hosed by AoE effects, which was a big concern even with the old Ranger’s animal companion. I think your post is the first time I’ve seen the mounted combat feat brought up in positive fashion.

In the end, all of these options are also available for the aasimar character, at the price of missing out on a stat bump or a different feat.



First off, I put the 50% uptime into my original argument, which is incredibly low, since that means both your attacks would have to miss for ½ the combat rounds, since the ability only requires 1 hit per round to activate. If you assume that most/all attacks hit, it becomes even better than I posted. If you assume it has an 80-100% uptime, then now you’re trading 27 damage for 80-100, along with a CC opener, which cuts the opportunity cost somewhat.

By level 20 your dealing 20 damage per round when its activated if you hit every round, but it lasts only a minute, so that's 10 attacks, for 200 damage at most, but how often does combat last 10 rounds? And what are the odds of hitting every round. So its a good power. But at level 20 if your say a Paladin, you have to give up to 2D12 and 2D8 damage if wielding a 2h weapon to activate it, so minus the total damage by 14. Of course if facing something vulnerible to your damage type, that 200 can become 400 damage. Higher if your a Scourage Aasimar surrounded by enemies.

A Aasimar Bard can also used Song of Rest with its healing hands ability, to heal even more damage with it during a rest.
 

Nimble escape could give regular advantage for a small number of classes in certain conditions, it’s by no means a guarantee. Even if it was (and would be too good as such) the limited scope inherently makes it less disruptive than the fallen Aasimar. After that you just list the variant human over and over, which has been a source of contention from day one. Do you have any examples that don’t specifically rely on having access to optional feat content?

Now that I know more about Volo's goblins, it seems clear that Fury of the Small is going to do damage competitive with Aasimar bonus damage too. If your 10th level Necrotic Shroud is doing 50 - (27 or whatever) damage over five rounds, and my goblin's Fury of the Small is doing 10 points of bonus damage three times per day, that's comparable, nicht so?

Even then, many of the examples you posted don’t stand up to any scrutiny. You’re going to have to explain how the rogue/sentinel interaction works, because by my reading the only way it’s useful is if the rogue has the reaction attack triggered while also having advantage.

If the reaction attack is triggered, you have an adjacent ally almost by definition. You don't need advantage to get sneak attack damage in that case.

Also, Swashbucklers rock.

100 HP is not better than 50 damage, at least not in all cases. Inspiring leader takes time to set up (10 minutes each) and its value is spread over the party. If the wizard is getting focused down, the bonus HP on the cleric aren’t helping. This leads me to the real crux though, is that killing things faster always saves you more HP than by reactively healing it. Doubly so against high-threat monsters, or those with powerful save effects. Lastly, you can stack multiple aasimar damage buffs, and I don’t believe this is the case with Inspiring leader.

Inspiring Leader isn't reactive. It's proactive.

"Killing things faster" is a way of attempting to proactively heal yourself, but it is a rare combat indeed where doing 50 HP of damage will prevent more than 100 HP of damage to the party. It only works that way against glass cannons, such as a wizard who is about to cast Cone of Cold on the whole party, or a young white dragon who is low on HP.

Mounted combat is barely worth addressing. Mounts can’t go into a wide number of areas, it only affects medium creatures (which many of the more dangerous foes are not), the larger weapon die works out to be +1-2 at best, and you also have to figure out how to keep your mount from getting hosed by AoE effects, which was a big concern even with the old Ranger’s animal companion. I think your post is the first time I’ve seen the mounted combat feat brought up in positive fashion.

In the end, all of these options are also available for the aasimar character, at the price of missing out on a stat bump or a different feat.

I'm not going to get into a debate with you about what kinds of terrain are most common at your table. If your campaign takes place entirely inside and/or underground, then two things are true: (1) You shouldn't take Mounted Combatant, (2) Sunlight Sensitivity is not an issue at your table, so kobolds and drow become more attractive.

Your comments about Large foes puzzle me though. If you're fighting Large foes, how can you be in a place where a Large steed is not allowed? In such a scenario you aren't gaining advantage bonus, but you're still gaining the offensive bonus of +2 damage to every attack (by using a lance) and the defensive bonus of higher movement and free dashes/disengage from your mount. That's a clear win. Note also that the aforementioned higher movement/free dashes/disengages also helps to protect you and your mount from AoEs, by staying out of the dense clumps of PCs which make AoEs attractive.

Your comments on AoEs are suspect. On the one hand, I'm not going to tell you how common AoEs are at your table. On the other hand, much like your comments about mounts not being allowed to go "many" places despite fighting Large and dangerous foes, it smells like an objection based in theorycraft instead of actual play. Sure, if a mount bites the dust to an AoE attack, you'll be inconvenienced for a while until you can get a new one. You may have to draw your longsword instead of your lance, until you can cast Find Steed or Phantom Steed or borrow your buddy's horse or get to one of your backup mounts. So what? How often do you actually lose a horse that way? It would have to happen a lot before Mounted Combatant became worse than Necrotic Shroud.

If, arguendo, Necrotic Shroud is adding 27ish points of damage per day at 10th level, and Mounted Combatant is adding merely 2 points of damage per attack because all of your foes happen to be Large, and we ignore all the defensive benefits of a mount, then if you land one and a half hits per round of combat for six three-round combats, Mounted Combatant is adding 54 points of damage, which means you have to kill a horse every day for Mounted Combatant not to be as good as Necrotic Shroud. (Since that would mean you spend 50% of your time on average unmounted, and 50% of 54 is 27.) Does that much unavoidable non-Dex-based AoE actually happen at your table? Is every single combat against white dragons?!?

First off, I put the 50% uptime into my original argument, which is incredibly low, since that means both your attacks would have to miss for ½ the combat rounds, since the ability only requires 1 hit per round to activate. If you assume that most/all attacks hit, it becomes even better than I posted. If you assume it has an 80-100% uptime, then now you’re trading 27 damage for 80-100, along with a CC opener, which cuts the opportunity cost somewhat.

So now you're assuming 8-10 round battles, but survivability (such as what you get from Nimble Escape, Mounted Combatant, Mobile, etc.) has no value? Color me skeptical. In such battles, "kill enemies faster" is clearly not working.

The more I read about Volo's, the more Aasimar look worse than goblins.
 
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Hobgoblin stats: +2Con +1INT, Darkvision, proficiency with two martial weapons of choice, and the ability to add a modifier equal to the amount of allies nearby (to a max of +5) when you fail an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check 1/short rest.

It's a weird one. It's not bad, but it's not too impressive either. It's stat bonuses and proficiencies also encourage a pseudo gish wizard, which considering how important "playing to type" is around here, does not seem to fit into that mentality.

This is such absolute crap. How is this even remotely supposed to keep up with anyone else in virtually any class?

First, the attributes... Intelligence is a straight up crap attribute that is the official dump stat of the game. If one isn't a wizard or warlock, any points put towards Intelligence are points wasted. It triggers no useful skills except "ask the DM to clarify the setting background in one super narrowly defined category" and "the crappier version of Perception that takes time and can only be used in very limited circumstances if you already as a player know the answer you want your character to find". Otherwise.... NOTHING.

Constitution, while it is important for it not to be negative, is almost useless. It triggers no skills, damage is done at such high amounts that 1 HP per level is virtually never going to make any difference and otherwise... well, it is one of the top 3 common saves. But since you cannot utilize the attribute actively and especially not offensively (and make no mistake, the current system is "whomever punches first and hard automatically wins") it is just isn't desirable. This is why you don't see a bunch of Dwarf builds which try to boost their Constitution to 20 at first level-- a max Constitution build doesn't equate to a successful character regardless of your class.

Martial Weapon proficiency is generally crap. Fighters, Paladins, and Barbarians already get all the weapons. Rogues and Bard already get all the weapons that substitute in Dexterity so they can't make use of them. Monk already gets all the weapons it needs. Wizards and Sorcerers, except the first couple levels perhaps, generally have cantrips that are far better damage options than any martial weapon would be.

Literally the only classes that can imaginably take advantage of this are Cleric and Warlock.

The Saving face thing is the only thing that maybe kind of works... But generally it just means that once per a short rest if you fail a roll by 3 or less points, you can turn it into a success. And if none of your allies are around? Well, the ONLY thing you have going for gets nullified. And it smacks in the very bad design that they intentionally avoided when they changed the way Halfling Luck worked in 5e.

And that's the end of it?!! REALLY?!! That is so much less than virtually any other race gets. Look at the High Elf which gets a skill proficiency, 2 martial and 2 standard weapons, immunity to sleep and resistance to charm, any cantrip to spam as often as they like and an extra language... Plus, THAT race gets a +2 in the god stat of Dexterity rather than the fairly inane and static stat of Constitution.

But it side-by-side with Mountain Dwarves and the evidence is presented even stronger that this was absolutely crap design. Nevermind comparing it to the ridiculously overpowered Bugbear and Goblin.

Just how valuable did the designers imagine that being able to turn one barely missed roll into a success once per a short rest would actually end up being? Because I just don't see it being all that particularly useful. Not compared to all the most comparable races who are instead going to be getting a +1 on all their most common rolls over this race.

They suck at being Fighters, they suck at being Paladins, they suck at being Rogues, they such at being Rangers, they suck at being Monks, they suck at being Bards... what is even left? Literally every single class one would imagine they would likely be, and to be fair conceptually they work for most classes... they have been shat out in a way to be absolutely terrible at all of them.

You are more or less forced to play a Warlock or just end up way, WAY worse than if you had chosen nearly any other race. Why the flip was this designed to only be a good option for Warlocks?

"Monster race" is such an absolutely piss-poor excuse for this sort of thoughtless design.
 

This is such absolute crap. How is this even remotely supposed to keep up with anyone else in virtually any class?

First, the attributes... Intelligence is a straight up crap attribute that is the official dump stat of the game. If one isn't a wizard or warlock, any points put towards Intelligence are points wasted. It triggers no useful skills except "ask the DM to clarify the setting background in one super narrowly defined category" and "the crappier version of Perception that takes time and can only be used in very limited circumstances if you already as a player know the answer you want your character to find". Otherwise.... NOTHING.

Constitution, while it is important for it not to be negative, is almost useless. It triggers no skills, damage is done at such high amounts that 1 HP per level is virtually never going to make any difference and otherwise... well, it is one of the top 3 common saves. But since you cannot utilize the attribute actively and especially not offensively (and make no mistake, the current system is "whomever punches first and hard automatically wins") it is just isn't desirable. This is why you don't see a bunch of Dwarf builds which try to boost their Constitution to 20 at first level-- a max Constitution build doesn't equate to a successful character regardless of your class.

Martial Weapon proficiency is generally crap. Fighters, Paladins, and Barbarians already get all the weapons. Rogues and Bard already get all the weapons that substitute in Dexterity so they can't make use of them. Monk already gets all the weapons it needs. Wizards and Sorcerers, except the first couple levels perhaps, generally have cantrips that are far better damage options than any martial weapon would be.

Literally the only classes that can imaginably take advantage of this are Cleric and Warlock.

The Saving face thing is the only thing that maybe kind of works... But generally it just means that once per a short rest if you fail a roll by 3 or less points, you can turn it into a success. And if none of your allies are around? Well, the ONLY thing you have going for gets nullified. And it smacks in the very bad design that they intentionally avoided when they changed the way Halfling Luck worked in 5e.

And that's the end of it?!! REALLY?!! That is so much less than virtually any other race gets. Look at the High Elf which gets a skill proficiency, 2 martial and 2 standard weapons, immunity to sleep and resistance to charm, any cantrip to spam as often as they like and an extra language... Plus, THAT race gets a +2 in the god stat of Dexterity rather than the fairly inane and static stat of Constitution.

But it side-by-side with Mountain Dwarves and the evidence is presented even stronger that this was absolutely crap design. Nevermind comparing it to the ridiculously overpowered Bugbear and Goblin.

Just how valuable did the designers imagine that being able to turn one barely missed roll into a success once per a short rest would actually end up being? Because I just don't see it being all that particularly useful. Not compared to all the most comparable races who are instead going to be getting a +1 on all their most common rolls over this race.

They suck at being Fighters, they suck at being Paladins, they suck at being Rogues, they such at being Rangers, they suck at being Monks, they suck at being Bards... what is even left? Literally every single class one would imagine they would likely be, and to be fair conceptually they work for most classes... they have been shat out in a way to be absolutely terrible at all of them.

You are more or less forced to play a Warlock or just end up way, WAY worse than if you had chosen nearly any other race. Why the flip was this designed to only be a good option for Warlocks?

"Monster race" is such an absolutely piss-poor excuse for this sort of thoughtless design.

It's funny that you keep saying Warlock is a viable option for them when it uses Charisma as its casting stat. Only Wizard uses Intelligence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

This is such absolute crap. How is this even remotely supposed to keep up with anyone else in virtually any class?

First, the attributes... Intelligence is a straight up crap attribute that is the official dump stat of the game. If one isn't a wizard or warlock, any points put towards Intelligence are points wasted. It triggers no useful skills except "ask the DM to clarify the setting background in one super narrowly defined category" and "the crappier version of Perception that takes time and can only be used in very limited circumstances if you already as a player know the answer you want your character to find". Otherwise.... NOTHING.

Constitution, while it is important for it not to be negative, is almost useless. It triggers no skills, damage is done at such high amounts that 1 HP per level is virtually never going to make any difference and otherwise... well, it is one of the top 3 common saves. But since you cannot utilize the attribute actively and especially not offensively (and make no mistake, the current system is "whomever punches first and hard automatically wins") it is just isn't desirable. This is why you don't see a bunch of Dwarf builds which try to boost their Constitution to 20 at first level-- a max Constitution build doesn't equate to a successful character regardless of your class.

Martial Weapon proficiency is generally crap. Fighters, Paladins, and Barbarians already get all the weapons. Rogues and Bard already get all the weapons that substitute in Dexterity so they can't make use of them. Monk already gets all the weapons it needs. Wizards and Sorcerers, except the first couple levels perhaps, generally have cantrips that are far better damage options than any martial weapon would be.

Literally the only classes that can imaginably take advantage of this are Cleric and Warlock.

The Saving face thing is the only thing that maybe kind of works... But generally it just means that once per a short rest if you fail a roll by 3 or less points, you can turn it into a success. And if none of your allies are around? Well, the ONLY thing you have going for gets nullified. And it smacks in the very bad design that they intentionally avoided when they changed the way Halfling Luck worked in 5e.

And that's the end of it?!! REALLY?!! That is so much less than virtually any other race gets. Look at the High Elf which gets a skill proficiency, 2 martial and 2 standard weapons, immunity to sleep and resistance to charm, any cantrip to spam as often as they like and an extra language... Plus, THAT race gets a +2 in the god stat of Dexterity rather than the fairly inane and static stat of Constitution.

But it side-by-side with Mountain Dwarves and the evidence is presented even stronger that this was absolutely crap design. Nevermind comparing it to the ridiculously overpowered Bugbear and Goblin.

Just how valuable did the designers imagine that being able to turn one barely missed roll into a success once per a short rest would actually end up being? Because I just don't see it being all that particularly useful. Not compared to all the most comparable races who are instead going to be getting a +1 on all their most common rolls over this race.

They suck at being Fighters, they suck at being Paladins, they suck at being Rogues, they such at being Rangers, they suck at being Monks, they suck at being Bards... what is even left? Literally every single class one would imagine they would likely be, and to be fair conceptually they work for most classes... they have been shat out in a way to be absolutely terrible at all of them.

You are more or less forced to play a Warlock or just end up way, WAY worse than if you had chosen nearly any other race. Why the flip was this designed to only be a good option for Warlocks?

"Monster race" is such an absolutely piss-poor excuse for this sort of thoughtless design.

This is, like, just your opinion man.---the dude

Seriously though, it seems like all of your complaints are dependent on a certain playstyle. One that isn't shared by a lot of other gamers. For example, we have INT skill checks all the time in our games, and it's not inconsequential. Also, you seem to have an extremely narrow view of what's good and what sucks, which appears to me at least from your post that it's a very tight window on the DPR graph. Which again, is not how most gamers play because most gamers don't play the game solely a combat simulation, but play with a lot of other factors (the other two pillars for instance). Hobgoblins are the tacticians of the goblinoid races. It makes perfect sense why they would get an INT stat.

So I'm sorry you don't like it, but you need to be aware that WoTC doesn't design a game for extremely niche gamers like yourself, but for the general gamer.
 

I was also thinking of adding the fact that Investigation is vastly different from perception.

And many of my current players would take offense at the idea Intelligence is unimportant, a low intelligence has been killing one of my players
 

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