D&D 5E Wanting more content doesn't always equate to wanting tons of splat options so please stop.

[hawkeyefan]

It doesn't show that at all. It shows that poor quality books hurt. Until the end of the edition when those poor quality books were put out, it did very well.

So what did you mean by this?

It wasn't the changes that destroyed them. It was the publishing of 3.5 books. Suddenly, instead of merely being errata, the misperception was that it was a new edition and the old stuff didn't work, even though it was just minor errata changes.

 

[hawkeyefan]

The second of these is undoubtedly true.

The first is harder to demonstrate. Everything fails eventually; we don't know that "more books" accelerated matters. Indeed, we don't even know that 5e's slower release schedule will lead to it lasting any longer than previous editions - it's a good bet, but at only just over two years in we can't know.

There's actually not very many games that last more than five years, and even fewer editions. It may simply be the case that there's a point they just run out of steam regardless of what the publisher does.

I don't think it's that hard to demonstrate. More books published eventually leads to a dip in quality, the faster the books are released, the faster that dip in quality will occur. A dip in quality can be expected to have a negative impact on how the product is received.

None of this is 100% certain, there may be exceptions. But it's not a complicated concept.

 

[Zardnaar]

I felt like the last few books were test runs for 4e. A lot of the mechanics from the last releases ended up in that edition.

Thats more or less how it worked with later 1E and 2E books as well.

usually quality peaks at the 2-4 year mark in declines at the end as books get more and more niche or really out there.

Its also the way the book publishing works you are better off selling 20k of 1 book than 13k of 2 books. 1E had a slow release schedule and sold the most PHB.

 

[Shasarak]

Its also the way the book publishing works you are better off selling 20k of 1 book than 13k of 2 books. 1E had a slow release schedule and sold the most PHB.

That is why you are better off selling 20k of 2 books.

 

[Hussar]

Perception is a funny old thing.

For me, the early 3.5 edition books weren't worth the paper they were printed on. I had zero interest in them. Just retreads of the same old stuff. It wasn't until later 3.5 that I bought pretty much any WotC books - Tome of Magic was one of the best rpg books I'd bought in a long, long time. The Environmental Series books were fantastic.

Complete X books? Pass thanks. Ohh, gee, let's jump on the power wagon yet again and make the game overly complicated to appeal to people who think rules mastery is a great thing. No thanks. Me, I'm perfectly happy to see one, maybe two, character based books in the entire run of 5e. Steady churn of character based books - and for me, one per year is still FAR too many? No thanks. I'll wait until WotC produces something I actually want to buy.

AFAIC, the fact that I don't have to audit every character sheet at the table every level is a GOOD THING. I never, ever want to see anyone using a spreadsheet program at my table again. Whether 3e or 4e, didn't matter. 4e had what, 40 base classes released in 2 or 3 years? How in the world could I possibly keep up? What's a "warden"? And how does that fit into my campaign world?

Heck, even in our 5e game, the presence of a Swashbuckler Rogue has caused problems. "I get my sneak attack" "why, there's no advantage and no one is near you" "Yeah, I'm a swashbuckler" "Oh right!!" is a conversation that comes up nearly every session. And it's not like this is a newbie table. All of us have been gaming for over a decade, through multiple editions, and most of us have DM'd at some point or other.

Add in a complete book of character options? Forget that. Endless wrangling about how X or Y works? If I wanted that, I'd go back to playing 3e or 4e.

 

[Shasarak]

So a self described "not a newbie table" can not remember that a Swashbuckler gets sneak attack from week to week?

Yeah, the problem is not how much material is coming out.

 

[Maxperson]

So what did you mean by this?

Do you not understand the difference between splat books at the end of the edition, and re-printing core books instead of just listing errata?

 

[Maxperson]

Thats more or less how it worked with later 1E and 2E books as well.

usually quality peaks at the 2-4 year mark in declines at the end as books get more and more niche or really out there.

Its also the way the book publishing works you are better off selling 20k of 1 book than 13k of 2 books. 1E had a slow release schedule and sold the most PHB.

Excellent, since prior editions had 2-4 years of quality at a release rate of about 15 general and setting releases per year, they can put out 1 general release book and 2 setting books per year for 10-20 years without sacrificing quality. That's plenty of time for 5e.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Do you not understand the difference between splat books at the end of the edition, and re-printing core books instead of just listing errata?

Sure. But I was asking about the part where you said that it was the 3.5 books that hurt them. The core books. Or is that not what you meant?

 

[Hussar]

So a self described "not a newbie table" can not remember that a Swashbuckler gets sneak attack from week to week?

Yeah, the problem is not how much material is coming out.

Reading failure.

But, having problems remembering that a swashbuckler gets sneak attack in situations that NO OTHER ROGUE gets is something that trips us up frequently.

But, hey, go with the snark if it helps.