D&D 5E Whatever "lore" is, it isn't "rules."

[Maxperson]

Meh. If adding slave race status to kobolds, something that isn't even hinted at previously isn't a change then I'm not sure how adding one more moon is a sudden radical change to the extent that it makes Greyhawk not greyhawk.

They were used to serve dragons in some early adventures.

Never minding adding the Isle of Dread to a previously unmapped part of the setting somehow isn't an addition but is a change.

Adding an island is an addition. Adding the Isle of Dread is mixing two different settings together, which addition or not, breaks the setting.

Does that mean that adding Kara Tur to FR makes it not FR?

Kara Tur and Zakhara are 3e canon. They are sub-settings that are limited to a country or two, and are written into the FR. Mystara is not a sub setting consisting of a few countries. It is a full fledged setting world.

 

[Maxperson]

Read in context, it does. The WoG paragraph describes the celestial objects visible from Eastern Oerik: the stars, the sun, and two moons. It doesn't specifically call out there are exactly two moons in much the same way we say "the moon" as opposed to "and our single moon".

Adding a moon that the observer(s) wouldn't notice (either an odd orbit that avoids Eastern Oerik, invisible, or too faint for available instrumentation) would not affect lore and would be an addition to the setting and be perfectly plausible in much the same way Uranus and Neptune existed unknown until the 18th and 19th centuries in our own history.

At least as far as the folio goes. I can't comment on the Spelljammer supplement.

Spelljammer gets much more specific, but is a meta setting and not part of the Greyhawk setting or lore unless the DM adds that meta setting to his game.

As an aside, we currently have two moons here on Earth. The Earth recently captured a much smaller satellite and will keep it for a number of years.

http://www.businessinsider.com/earth-has-two-moons-2016-6

 

[TwoSix]

As an aside, we currently have two moons here on Earth. The Earth recently captured a much smaller satellite and will keep it for a number of years.

Wait...does this mean Earth is no longer canon?

Because I've read an awful lot of setting material that said Earth had exactly one moon.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[pemerton]

Pretty much everyone has a line where settings stop being that setting. It varies from person to person, so of course I can't speak to anyone but myself. My line isn't your line. Your line isn't [MENTION=94143]Shasarak[/MENTION]'s line. His line isn't [MENTION=48965]Imaro[/MENTION]'s, and so on. The line does exist for everyone, though.

If all these "lines" are personal and idiosyncratic, then what is the force of your judgment "That's not realy a GH game?" It doesn't seem to have any force at all.

 

[pemerton]

So Greyspace is a departure from canon but 3rd Moon is not?

I don't accept the addition/change distinction. But both [MENTION=48965]Imaro[/MENTION] and [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] do. And they've relied upon that distinction to argue that adding new lore that fills in gaps or contradicts implications in earlier lore is not change but addition.

I'm saying that, by their standards, a 3rd moon is not a change. As [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] has pointed out, the two canonical moons are still there. There's just a third one too. No where does the canon say there is not a 3rd moon. And it's written in the voice of an in-fiction sage and astrologer - maybe that sage just wasn't aware of the 3rd moon when writing that particular treatise? Or didn't want to mention it because it's taboo, or bad luck, to do so? (This is a variation of [MENTION=23935]Nagol[/MENTION]'s point not far upthread.)

Having a 3rd moon doesn't contradict anything in the earlier material - the other two moons are still there, just as desdribed. And the canon never asserts that they're the only two moons. (I think this is much the same point as [MENTION=6787503]Hriston[/MENTION]'s not far upthread.)

 

[TwoSix]

Having a 3rd moon doesn't contradict anything in the earlier material - the other two moons are still there, just as desdribed. And the canon never asserts that they're the only two moons. (I think this is much the same point as [MENTION=6787503]Hriston[/MENTION]'s not far upthread.)

I think that's just a basic problem with English. If I say "I have a dollar in my pocket", there's no way to parse whether I have "exactly" one dollar or "at least" one dollar. Same thing for "Oerth has two moons".

 

[TwoSix]

Don't even get me started.

Do you remember when they retconned Pluto? Man, that was a controversial reboot of the setting!

THERE ...ARE....EIGHT....PLANETS!

 

[lowkey13]

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[TwoSix]

View attachment 80671

Okay, maybe he's a little unorthodox. But c'mon, there's nothing that says a dog can't be a planet!

That's the oddest picture of Makemake I've ever seen. [/astronomyjoke]