D&D 5E Warlock, Hex, and Short Rests: The Bag of Rats Problem

[Barolo]

I see concentration in spell exactly as the level of concentration you get with mindfulness meditation = mind focus. This isn't streneous at all, and to prove, you can even fight, research, do acrobatics while you concentrate without any penalty. Is very different that concentrate in an Excel sheet, what is streneous and, while fighting, would give me desadvatange.

But I get your point.

I see concentration simply as a way of limiting active 'buffs/debuffs/area control' effects, and also as mechanism to allow for the opposition to counter such effects. Whatever extra in-fiction nuances are to the tastes of each table.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[zaratan]

I see concentration simply as a way of limiting active 'buffs/debuffs/area control' effects, and also as mechanism to allow for the opposition to counter such effects. Whatever extra in-fiction nuances are to the tastes of each table.

Good, if you only care for mechanical part, you can short rest while concentrate, because the game was designed that way.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Earlier in the thread, there were individuals who believed that not allowing the Bag of Rats was "nerfing" the Warlock. I think it's a reasonable supposition that if you claim that not allowing something is "nerfing," then that something is "necessary."

Personally, I've never been a huge fan of hex myself, so whatever.

But that doesn't follow. You absolutely can nerf something that is optional.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Heh, now that you mention it... let's see if your assessment lines up with mine. Starting with the one in the cap next to the DM and going around the table, I'm gonna say:

1. Fighter with a big ol' sword and a lot of hit points. Goes where he's told and hits stuff.
2. Ineffectual bard, sometimes entertaining, always infuriating.
3. Rogue who's always trying to steal from other PCs.
4. Dwarf fighter with an attitude. Will fight anyone, anywhere, any time, for any reason.
5. Cleric, not very bright but with a heart of gold.
6. Wizard played by a ruthlessly efficient min-maxer. Not so much a character as a mathematical formula, which inevitably computes out to "You're dead."

That's what I picked by and large, save for 4, who is also a rogue/sneaky wizard. It's not apparent, but in the original painting, the white bulldog (4) is passing cards under the table to the brown one (3). Not sure what the package is, but I can only assume some sort of nefarious player shenanigans!

 

[Caliban]

This is such a non-issue. By the time you get to the levels where you can maintain the Hex spell for 8 or 24 hours, the warlock has several good Concentration spells available which are as good as or better than Hex. At most this tactic gives you a single extra spell slot for your first combat of the day (because otherwise you'd cast Hex during your first combat and maintain it the rest of the day).

Either you don't need one of the higher level concentration spells (and thus it's probably not an important fight), or it's a big fight and you'll need something a little more potent than hex. (I like Wall of Fire + Repelling Blast, but there are many other options.)

I've never seen so many people trying to rewrite the rules of the game (either "you can't concentrate through a short rest" or "you can't take a short rest immediately after a long rest (in a different thread)", or whatever the current trendy nerf is) to prevent a single class from get a single extra spell slot for one combat.

That being said - a literal "bag of rats" really isn't optimal. They'll crap everywhere from the stress of being carried around in a bag, they'll smell, they'll chew through the bag, they'll make noise. Just way too much hassle.

If you are going to do it, do it properly. If you are in town, buy a live chicken from the local market and hex it before you have it cooked for breakfast. If you are in the wilderness, be proficient in the cook toolkit (or hire a cook to travel with you) and survival (or ask someone in the party with survival) to trap a small animal for breakfast and do it that way. If neither of those is a viable option in your current environment, suck it up and get on with your day.

I think the real objections to this are more philosophical than rules or balanced based.

 

[Barolo]

Good, if you only care for mechanical part, you can short rest while concentrate, because the game was designed that way.

Yes? As far as I can remember I never claimed otherwise.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yes, you can. But then you wouldn't say that you were nerfing the whole class.

Which you are aware of since you gave XP to the posts claiming that they were "nerfing" the Warlock.

If it is a popular "staple" option, yeah, I might.

I mean, I also don't necessarily agree with every word of a post I give xp to, and even xp posts I disagree with sometimes, if they are well written or if the poster is being cool about an argument, so that aspect doesn't even hold water, either.

But, yeah, the idea of Hex being "necessary", or people thinking it is, is a thing you are adding to the conversation.

And, to be clear, this whole thing isn't even something no one would think of if they hadn't read this thread.

On my warlock that has Hex (the other doesn't), this is a simplification of what I do regularly.
We figured out that you don't loose concentration when you take short rest a long time ago, and so first fight of the day you use concentration spells that can be extended a long time.
Only thing this adds is a thematically appropriate way to simplify that without changing any rules.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

This is such a non-issue. By the time you get to the levels where you can maintain the Hex spell for 8 or 24 hours, the warlock has several good Concentration spells available which are as good as or better than Hex. At most this tactic gives you a single extra spell slot for your first combat of the day (because otherwise you'd cast Hex during your first combat and maintain it the rest of the day).

Either you don't need one of the higher level concentration spells (and thus it's probably not an important fight), or it's a big fight and you'll need something a little more potent than hex. (I like Wall of Fire + Repelling Blast, but there are many other options.)

I've never seen so many people trying to rewrite the rules of the game (either "you can't concentrate through a short rest" or "you can't take a short rest immediately after a long rest (in a different thread)", or whatever the current trendy nerf is) to prevent a single class from get a single extra spell slot for one combat.

That being said - a literal "bag of rats" really isn't optimal. They'll crap everywhere from the stress of being carried around in a bag, they'll smell, they'll chew through the bag, they'll make noise. Just way too much hassle.

If you are going to do it, do it properly. If you are in town, buy a live chicken from the local market and hex it before you have it cooked for breakfast. If you are in the wilderness, be proficient in the cook toolkit (or hire a cook to travel with you) and survival (or ask someone in the party with survival) to trap a small animal for breakfast and do it that way. If neither of those is a viable option in your current environment, suck it up and get on with your day.

I think the real objections to this are more philosophical than rules or balanced based.

Right? If it were only possible with a literal bag of rats, I could see it.
If it gave the warlock an extra spell slot all day, I could see it.

But it does neither of those.