D&D 5E (2014) All levels are not equal

[Li Shenron]

I wrote a comment in a recent thread on multiclassing, where I stated that, compared to previous editions where classes had various "empty levels", in 5e every class gains something at every level, which is roughly of equal worth (except that higher levels may grant better features), and this is good for multiclassing because there aren't huge opportunities to min-max by picking the first few levels in many classes.

Anyway, it made me wonder if there really aren't some character features which can be gained at a similar (at least close) level, but have a wide difference in worth.

It then came to my mind while reading the latest Warlord thread, there is a suggestion to represent it as a Bard/Fighter(Battlemaster), and so I thought why not just a Bard with the Martial Adept feat. So I compared the two:

- Battlemaster's Combat Superiority (gained at Fighter level 3): you learn three maneuvers and have four superiority dice of d8

- Martial Adept feat (gained at level 4, with Human Variant gained at level 1): you learn two maneuvers and have one superiority die of d6

That's a striking difference in worth, and something similar happens if you compare the worth of the Magic Initiate feat with the whole 1st level in a spellcasting class.

I am not saying that this is wrong, just that feats which allow you to gain essentially the main feature of another class have a very high price tag, which is probably by design.

Can you think of other examples where two choices available at the same level range have wide differences in worth?

 

[rgoodbb]

Skilled Feat at 1st/4th vs 3 skills at Lore bard 3rd?

Actor Feat at 1st/4th vs mask of many faces at 2nd vs disguise self spell at 1st vs UA Eberron Changeling Race at 1st

Is that the sort of thing you are meaning?

 

[aco175]

I was going to comment on spellcasters and missing high level spells by multiclassing, ie a 10th level wizard vs. a 5th level wizard. I would think that a warlord would be a 1/2 caster like paladin or ranger, so now I'm looking at them I can see that a 10th level ranger gets the same amount of spells as a 5th level wizard. I guess it would come down to other abilities making the class stand on its own.

A fighter's 2nd wind ability or the mage gaining spells back after a rest is cool. Give the warlord something cool to make it stand on its own. I think this can also be archtype at 3rd level as well.

 

[TwoSix]

All levels are equal, but some levels are more equal than others.

 

[Jester David]

Magic initiate and one level of wizard (or a 3rd level of an eldritch knight fighter) are also pretty uneven.

Generally, the odd levels are stronger than the even levels. You get ASI at even levels, so right off the bat feats are going to be a little weaker.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Tony Vargas]

5e avoids dead-levels in concept, with a little something at every level, but it could still be better-suited to 3e-style 'modular' MCing. For that to work, the next level in every other class would have to have equal value to the next level in your highest level class. Unless everything (and I mean everything) scaled with character level, that'd be very hard to do.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The major benefit of a class-bases system is that all features don't need to be equal. Some class features can be major game-changers, like Diamond Soul, and other class features can just be fun ribbons; since you can't pick-and-choose which feature you want to gain at each level, the designers only need to balance a class as a whole rather than balancing all of the individual parts.

One of the major issues plaguing pick-and-choose systems is that fun ribbons are so rarely chosen, since they're in direct competition against useful abilities.

 

[Xeviat]

As long as big features are preceded by ribbons, they can be balanced. They do present certain issues with multiclassing, like how level 5 is very important.


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[Tony Vargas]

As long as big features are preceded by ribbons, they can be balanced.

Not so much in the sense I thought you were getting at. What if a build ends up taking the 'ribbon' level, but waits a long time for the 'big feature' (or worse, never gets it)?