D&D 5E Is WotC ever going to release something high level? Even as UA test material?

[Zardnaar]

Okay, so all three replies are completely apologetic towards WotC here.

What happened to the idea that if a game advertises twenty levels, we should actually COMPLAIN if said game doesn't actually support all twenty levels...?

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Heh TSR had the same problem, none of the D&Ds have worked that well at higher levels except maybe BECMI even then its more like lvl 15ish.

 

[Raith5]

3E was broken at higher levels, 4E kinda brok in different ways as the game required to much work to run at higher level (as in 10+).

There is a reason people talk about the sweet spot, its not a lack of high level support that dooms higher level play its to much work for the DM and most campaigns do not get that high anyway. The highest selling D&D items ever are for level 1-3 and the 1E PHB and most of the classic 1E adventures are level 1-8.

This squares with my experience, especially of 1e and 2e. I also gave up playing 3.5 at about 13th level, magic just overpowered everything. But I should say that played 4e right up to 30th level and it played fine. I mean fights were really, really, really slow! But it all worked mathematically and the monsters, spells etc were all there. It felt fully supported.

But this just begs the question why do they keep doing this? Why go up to 20th level in the PHB but not really in the DMG, the MM or adventures?

 

[Zardnaar]

This squares with my experience, especially of 1e and 2e. I also gave up playing 3.5 at about 13th level, magic just overpowered everything. But I should say that played 4e right up to 30th level and it played fine. I mean fights were really, really, really slow! But it all worked mathematically and the monsters, spells etc were all there. It felt fully supported.

But this just begs the question why do they keep doing this? Why go up to 20th level in the PHB but not really in the DMG, the MM or adventures?

Its because its what people expect personally I think I would prefer 10 or 14 levels.

Its something I noticed playing retroclones, old D&D handles higher level better. Modern gamers like options but those options come at a price. The numbers tend to be smaller, the saves tend to work better (magic is less OP), and if you play Basic or a clone of it at higher levels you do things like build strong holds etc so beating stuff up is less important.

Hell you can level up just by going to get pirate treasure for example you get more xp than killing stuff- xp for gold.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

There are some high level (Tier 4) mods coming out for Adventurer's League that are available from DM's Guild. Check those out first and see what you think!

 

[JeffB]

The entire game would need to be redesigned to play well at high level. It has never been good at high level play..from OD&D onward..

Better off buying a game designed from the ground up to deliver a "superhero" or "demi-god" like experience.

Hell, D&D doesn't do a very good job of modelling the literature it was influenced by, let alone high level play. Too many systems and assumptions would need to change and we all know most D&D players won't buy into that kind of change as witnessed by 4e's backlash even when change is superficial..

WE HATE HEALING SURGES...IT IS NOT D&D!

but we like the Hit Dice mechanic..to regain hit points....

WE HATE AT-WILL ENCOUNTER AND DAILY POWERS! Grrr...Its not D&D!

But we are fine with powers that recharge after a short or long rest and cantrips....

That said..yes..it would be nice for them to support high level play if they offer it in the rulebook, but I would not hold my breath...and DMsG adventures are as much a quality crapshoot as 2002 D20 books.

 

[BMaC]

There are some high level (Tier 4) mods coming out for Adventurer's League that are available from DM's Guild. Check those out first and see what you think!

This is great news! Any idea when?

 

[jasper]

Okay, so all three replies are completely apologetic towards WotC here.

What happened to the idea that if a game advertises twenty levels, we should actually COMPLAIN if said game doesn't actually support all twenty levels...?

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Pay me. Because I threw my money away on DDAL 05-18 level 17. DDAL 05-19 Level 17

 

[Warmaster Horus]

This is great news! Any idea when?

There are at least 3 out now (DDAL05-18 and DDAL05-19 along with DDAL00-01 Window to the Past) and DDAL06-03 to be released next month. I know of at least one other author-only Tier IV mod but it's not out yet.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

As for 'high level is unplayable', I guess it depends what you're looking for. More work and nuance needs to go into creating challenging stories and encounters but it's certainly do-able. High level 5e PCs are still fragile - rarely do they have more than 200 hp or +10 in a save other than their primary ones. That means they can usually kick the tar out of a pair of beholders but things look a lot different when there's a dozen of them. Oh, a pit fiend is child's play but what about one commanding a troop of 30 bone devils and a couple of Erinyes lieutenants guarding a fortification in Hell? Then after they've defeated those have the heroes take on the inevitable reinforcements with no or little rest?

 

[S'mon]

IME 5e is completely playable at high levels (one group is 13-14, another up to 18). The Encounter Building rules are crap at any level so that's not particular to high level. High level monsters can definitely threaten high level PCs, and unlike 4e it doesn't even get too slow unless I use dozens of Vrocks...