D&D 5E Waterball, the spell - what level should it be?

[Caliban]

Whoops, sorry. Got mixed up on who was posting what. I'll fix it.

No complaints. Just silent judgement.

 

[Ancalagon]

Is the water permanent? I.e. it's actually gated in from the Plane of Water or similar, doesn't vanish into nothingness after a few rounds? If so, I'd take the 8th level Elemental Gate spell that I remember from AD&D, reduce it a level because it's a one-time burst... consider raising it again because Waterball acts so quickly, but decide against it... I'd call it 7th level overall.

BTW, you wouldn't sink a ship unless it was heavily-loaded with cargo already, like coal or metal. After all, wood floats.

I was going to go all scientific on you but instead I will ask you to consider metal ships

Edit: your reasoning about the level of the spell is quite sound however.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using EN World mobile app

 

[schnee]

BTW, you wouldn't sink a ship unless it was heavily-loaded with cargo already, like coal or metal. After all, wood floats.

I could see it ripping the sails off of a mast, and possibly breaking the boom or yard, especially if it was windy and the ship was tipped over a bit giving a lot of surface area to press down on.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I was going to go all scientific on you but instead I will ask you to consider metal ships

What technological era do your 5E games occur in? Steampunk? If so, then yes, you potentially sink one of THOSE kinds of ships with Waterball, if it were small enough and the pumps weren't working.

But this is a tangent anyway--I didn't mean to start an extended discussion on ships and sinking.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

It's not like ships being heavily loaded enough to sink is an unusual phenomenon. There are plenty of wooden shipwrecks on the bottom of the ocean. Wood gets waterlogged, after all; a ship that's been at sea a while probably doesn't need much cargo to send it to the bottom if it gets swamped.

And even if the ship didn't go to the bottom, a ship full of water is useless for anything but clinging to and waiting to be rescued.

This is true. "Sunk" is not the only failure state for a ship.

 

[CM]

I'd have the water last only one round, and put it at 2nd or 3rd depending on how strong the push is.

 

[MarkB]

Just to point out, you could also have lots of fun with it in sub-zero temperatures. Drop it on a street or field to make an ice rink, or pour it over a building and pretty soon it'll ice-lock every door.

 

[Dausuul]

I'd have the water last only one round, and put it at 2nd or 3rd depending on how strong the push is.

There are really two issues with this spell: First, the water is permanent. Second, the water weighs 1,000 tons. Putting a 1-round duration on it addresses the first issue but not the second. You can still use it to squash buildings.

The watery sphere spell linked by Caliban (see, got it right this time) addresses both issues by having the sphere exist for 1 round and be suspended in midair. If we're trying to keep the spell level low, that'd be the route I would follow.

Alternatively, rather than having the water levitate, it could be made just barely heavier than air. So it flows downward, but not with any great force, and it can't squash anything or deal falling damage.

 

[CM]

There are really two issues with this spell: First, the water is permanent. Second, the water weighs 1,000 tons. Putting a 1-round duration on it addresses the first issue but not the second. You can still use it to squash buildings.

Shatter and Fireball should do some pretty horrific things to structures too, but they don't seem to be a problem?

We just don't have any real-world physics measurements of the forces they apply to compare against.

Edit:

You could also reduce the density of the water. Make it equivalent to a torrential downpour rather than an instant aquarium. Increase the density (damage & prone/push radius) with the slot level.

Having it suspended in midair is, frankly, a nonsensical kludge to balance it. It should take more "magical energy" to keep the water suspended than to just let it fall.

 

[Barolo]

Sometimes D&D (or games in general?) works just like this, and effects that are much more of a stretch from reality get away being lower level spells because their destructive impact (or overall usefulness) is limited.