D&D 5E FAMOUS LAST WORDS: "It wouldn't be here if we weren't supposed to fight it."

[Fauchard1520]

You guys ever hear of Gygaxian Naturalism? Hit the link for the full story, but here's what's got me curious: Do you ever put overpowered monsters in the party's path? For example, is it ever possible for a party of level 4 dudes to encounter an adult red dragon? And if so, how do you impress upon your PCs that fighting might not be the answer?

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Arilyn]

I would make sure the players know ahead of time that not all encounters should end in a fight. I would also make sure fleeing actually works, as DnD has terrible rules in place for running away. Since most monsters are faster than players it isn't easy to escape. If the players are going to encounter something above their pay grade, make sure fleeing can work, or negotiating. Having the players find clues that something really dangerous lurks nearby is also a good tactic. If the players have been trained by other campaigns to kill everything in sight, you might have to be patient with them at first!

 

[green_destiny]

how do you impress upon your PCs that fighting might not be the answer?

1. When the monster rips their powerful allied NPC like paper.

2. Most of the time, its too late and they are already fighting it when they realize that its way out of their league. Like when half of the party is down, then suddenly they want to try a diplomatic approach.

3. Something in the environment is 'weird' until they figure out that they need to investigate it and disable it to lessen or stop a threat.

 

[Fauchard1520]

Something in the environment is 'weird' until they figure out that they need to investigate it and disable it to lessen or stop a threat.

Well that's a novel approach. Any examples of this in practice?

 

[green_destiny]

Well that's a novel approach. Any examples of this in practice?

Deadliest was when the party entered a tomb, that they know that once they enter it, after some time it will collapse.Inside is a 50ft tall statue of an ancient god of magic, it has a glowing horn in its head. Then all spell casters felt a chill on their spine, glowing wands became dim, they just shrugged it off. They proceeded to loot the tomb as much as they can given the limited time.

A huge monster was guarding the tomb - forgot what it was this was in 3.5. The encounter starts. Only then that they found out that the whole tomb has an anti-magic field. 90% of the party are classes that had access to spell casting. All of their spells fizzles and useless. They spent almost all battle fighting the monster with sticks, spears, daggers and relying on the fighter.

Eventually they got curious of the glowing horn which they suspected was the rune / source of the anti-magic field. They climbed the statue (with much difficulty) while the rest fights the monster. One by one they fell, then the tomb collapsed. TPK.

 

[Fauchard1520]

...it has a glowing horn in its head.

I guess that's the question for me. To what extent is the GM responsible for emphasizing this sort of thing? From the story it seems pretty clear to me that the players just weren't paying attention. Is it good policy to continue dropping hints (e.g. "You try to cast, but your magic flickers and fades. Give me a Perception check... 17? OK, you notice that the horn on the statue flickers in sympathy with your spell."), or do you leave the unobservant party to their fate?

 

[Eltab]

If I tell the party about how the environment is changing around them as they travel - the maple and oak trees are thinning out, replaced by skinny trees that might be made of bone - then they should be talking among themselves to figure out what is going on. If they are L1 and proceed to enter the Monster's Lair anyways ...

Anything that can change the environment into something un-natural is a Big Tough Foe.

We might have to create a new party by the end of the night, or we might have to 're-wind' back to "You are leaving the edge of town and a few folk come out to watch as you go. They look sorrowful, like they don't expect to see you come back."

 

[iserith]

Do you ever put overpowered monsters in the party's path? For example, is it ever possible for a party of level 4 dudes to encounter an adult red dragon? And if so, how do you impress upon your PCs that fighting might not be the answer?

Yes, absolutely. My 8th-level party just had a dust-up with an ancient red dragon a couple weeks ago. Well, sorta. It was a kind of simulacrum, but just as deadly except for being able to be dispelled, which they figured out. But I had been hinting at this encounter from the second session of the campaign. Ten sessions later, they had gathered allies and resources sufficient to at least be able to stand up to the red dragon, even though they were absolutely consigned to losing a few characters in the process. There was a certain grim finality in the air as they marched off to face it while it set about burning down city blocks with its fiery breath. It wasn't until they started picking up some strangeness during the fight that the red dragon wasn't all that it seemed to be.

I can't underscore enough the value of telegraphing threats to the players via describing the environment well. If a creature that far outmatches the PCs' ability is on their path, then leaving signs of that creature's badassedness not only builds tension and makes the environment come alive, it signals to the players that they might be out of their depths. So whenever possible, I say the DM should be handing out hints and clues about what the PCs are likely to face so they can make informed decisions about what to do when they encounter these deadly perils.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Not just in 5e but one thing I notice from players is most don't bother to make it possible to escape from threats they cannot kill. The casters don't take spells that will slow down pursuers, thieves not carrying caltrops, etc. Everything is pure DPR calculation.