D&D 5E (2014) FAMOUS LAST WORDS: "It wouldn't be here if we weren't supposed to fight it."

[lowkey13]

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[Li Shenron]

You guys ever hear of Gygaxian Naturalism? Hit the link for the full story, but here's what's got me curious: Do you ever put overpowered monsters in the party's path? For example, is it ever possible for a party of level 4 dudes to encounter an adult red dragon? And if so, how do you impress upon your PCs that fighting might not be the answer?

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

Yes I do.

I give them plenty of clues either through narrative or lore checks. I do not let them easily stumble by chance into an impossible encounter. I do not have dragons ambush a low level party (do you ambush ants and earthworms in your garden?). If they insist on initiating combat, I flat out tell them if it's nearly impossible.

 

[Nupo]

Characters that are good at running from encounters sometimes don't live long in my campaigns. Characters that never run are guaranteed to not live long! I try to create a vibrant, diverse world for them to adventure in. With very little effort on their part, they can gain information on what kinds of challenges they are likely to encounter in various areas. Where they choose to go, and what they choose to take on is entirely up to them. I'm not a complete jerk though, I don't give them incredibly difficult encounters with no avenue of escape. I realize no win situations would happen in a "realistic" setting, but a TPK with absolutely no chance of avoiding it is no fun for anyone.

 

[ninjayeti]

Yeah, I think it makes for good gaming if characters to occasionally face threats they can't handle, but it is tricky. Often players are just relying on some sort of metagame thinking to know they are outclassed, which is not ideal (either knowing a monster's CR is above their current capabilities, or realizing when the DM starts going into great detail about the piles of bones outside the monster's cave that means they need to run).

A couple of techniques that I think work:

MUCH more powerful monsters: With adult dragons, beholders, demon lords, etc. it should be very clear very quickly that most parties are outgunned. With lesser threats it is harder for players to realize they are overmatched until too late.

Superior numbers of known foes: If the party has a hard fight against 5 ogres, tell them that 20 ogres are coming down the road. If they are not smart enough to run then, they deserve whatever happens next.

Waves of enemies: For every enemy the party drops two more join the fight - the party should realize that if it does not flee it will get overwhelmed.

Invulnerable enemies: Let the players know that their attacks don't seem to be having any effect. This works well for low level parties without magic weapons, but you can also create monsters that require specific weapons or attack types to defeat. This can be used to set up the "we need to find dragonglass weapons in order to kill these guys..." type plot lines.

Redshirts: Let the players see the monster chop through a bunch of NPCs so they realize how tough it is.

 

[lowkey13]

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[Nupo]

(do you ambush ants and earthworms in your garden?)

Earthworms are our friends, they get gentle treatment and protection. Ants on the other hand, get no quarter. Any type of attack against them is on the table, slam, trample, and even poison. Heck, I'd use magic if I could.

 

[Dorian_Grey]

When PCs are stupid, they get burned. Simple as that.

Me: "The thieves guild in the city is notorious for their slippery ways. They move around through sewers and rooftops, and rumors swirl that there are probably a hundred different routes the thieves use to come and go from their lair under the Broken Yard Tavern. The bartender, long suspected to be the head of the gang, easily deflects the city guard when they come searching, often laughing openly when they accuse him of crimes."
PCs: "Let's go to that tavern, and challenge him!"
Me: *Slams head to table.*

No matter how much I talk about thinking through problems, looking for alternative routes, promising full XP for any encounter defeated in any manner (i.e. bribing the guards to leave = full XP, sneaking over the wall instead of fighting the guards = full XP), I'll still get groups that have one tool and one tool only: frontal assault.

 

[WarpedAcorn]

To throw another wrench into the machine, there might be another reason why players choose combat instead of picking up on clues that they should flee...they want to fight. Part of the game includes combat encounters, and most every group I've ever played in enjoys the combat aspect. If you've been gaming for 4 hours of dialogue and the chance comes for a fight, itching dice are probably going to want to act. I know I am guilty of this for sure. In a recent game the DM clearly expressed the fight was beyond our group...but we hadn't had any combat encounters in pushing 2 sessions, so I REALLY wanted to push the red button and see what happened (plus we had some favorable conditions and the DM isn't know for making difficult encounters).

 

[lowkey13]

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[Shiroiken]

I impress upon my players that the world is not tailored to the players. When someone says the swamp is dangerous, that means 1st level characters shouldn't go there. My players are experienced enough to have an idea of what is within their skill range, so I'm not super worried about player error (although I do allow Int checks to recognize monsters). The party will almost always have the opportunity to run, or to surrender to intelligent foes.

I've had dragons on wandering monster encounters, and it works great if they're flying. The party can see them from literally a mile away, giving them plenty of time to hide. Even if the dragon notices them, it probably doesn't care unless they provoke it...