D&D 5E Do you miss attribute minimums/maximums?

[Pauln6]

Well, if your women suffer a strength 'penalty' as a result of a cap, just allow them to add it to another stat. That pretty much covers it. Women on average are smarter, better at communicating, with a more robust immune system (unless pregnant). At the top end of gymnastics, they are ludicrously limber. Sounds to me like there are real world parallels.

One of things i liked about the drow was that they were clearly a matriarchal society where females were stronger than males. I lamented when in 2e or 3e (I forget which) they rowed back from this and made the sexes equal. It's fine for there to be some inequality as long as it is not always in the same direction. I recall that female trolls were supposed to be bigger and stronger than males as well.

 

[Igwilly]

I wouldn’t enter a debate about real world ideas and ideologies. This is a debate about game rules. Reality enters when we are trying to (partially) model reality.
I am already engaged in thinking about some ideas, but this is something too attached to the specific system. I don’t play 5e and it has been a long time I’ve saw 5e’s rules. I’m here to offer opinions where I think they are contributing.
Anyway, as I said, making gender-specific mechanics requires some work. There are many variables here and we have to consider the outside context of the general rules. If we even begin making this sort of rule, balance comes as a prime concern. In addition, I think anyone wanting to include some of that should think for a while. It may cause negative reaction, giving the current state of things. That is perhaps the biggest drawback.

 

[Caliban]

Caliban no one in this thread, that I have seen, has even inferred that. Instead I have only seen suggestions which have been made to counter/balance the adjustment made to STR for female characters. I'm not really concerned with this issue - but I really dislike this automated PC-police response because some gamer would like to include this level of detail in their campaign.
I mean if someone was being obnoxiously or rude - sure, but I don't get that from posters in this thread. We really should stop judging posters because of what happens on the interwebs (outside of Enworld or even this thread).

You said, and I quote:

But I strongly disagree with your statement that people think women are less than men. Seriously get over yourself.

I disagreed with your disagreement, since it is factually untrue. There are people, many people, who do think women are less than men.

I'm not trying to imply that you believe that. Simply that people like that exist, and many of them are gamers.

 

[Sadras]

And because the game revolves around combat there are no things in it that affect the mind (like illusion or enchantment spells) or that cause disease (that's why there's no remove disease ability or spell in the game), and there is definitely nothing like a Diplomacy or an Insight skill to deal with PCs getting into social encounters of any kind.

When one is discussing strength we are referring to natural raw strength not magically induced, like cause disease, illusion or enchantment spells. As for communication I referred to emotional communication.

But here is the bottom line, make the changes to male constitution, wisdom, charisma...as you see fit etc at your game table.
I wouldn't be answering back to you "....but the net message is still "the people making/playing this game think men are less than women"."

 

[MechaPilot]

Caliban no one in this thread, that I have seen, has even inferred that. Instead I have only seen suggestions which have been made to counter/balance the adjustment made to STR for female characters. I'm not really concerned with this issue - but I really dislike this automated PC-police response because some gamer would like to include this level of detail in their campaign.
I mean if someone was being obnoxiously or rude - sure, but I don't get that from posters in this thread. We really should stop judging posters because of what happens on the interwebs (outside of Enworld or even this thread).

If you might recall, some of us have experienced men thinking of and treating women as less than them in real life at gaming tables.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...aming/page47&p=6879536&viewfull=1#post6879536

 

[Sadras]

If you might recall, some of us have experienced men thinking of and treating women as less than them in real life at gaming tables.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...aming/page47&p=6879536&viewfull=1#post6879536

Sure, but that doesn't give one the right to continually play the victim card. Some people prefer a little more detail in their imaginary world. There is no reason to go PC about it.

 

[MechaPilot]

When one is discussing strength we are referring to natural raw strength not magically induced, like cause disease, illusion or enchantment spells.

A strength penalty for women would affect their Str saves against magical effects would it not?

As for communication I referred to emotional communication.

Are you under the impression that Diplomacy cannot be used to sway someone emotionally, or that Insight cannot be used to see cues as to feelings of another character.

But here is the bottom line, make the changes to male constitution, wisdom, charisma...as you see fit etc in your game.
I wouldn't be answering back to you "....but the net message is still "the people making/playing this game think men are less than women"."

That thing that's fit for my game is that men and women can be equal.

And yes, I would fully expect that if I implemented penalties for men and no penalties for women based on "reflecting reality" that I would be called sexist, because I would literally be imposing a sex-based penalty on one sex and not the other.

 

[Sadras]

You said, and I quote:

I disagreed with your disagreement, since it is factually untrue. There are people, many people, who do think women are less than men.

I'm not trying to imply that you believe that. Simply that people like that exist, and many of them are gamers.

Fair enough, I was unclear. When I used the word 'people' I didn't mean people in general - I meant the posters in this thread.

 

[MechaPilot]

Sure, but that doesn't give one the right to continually play the victim card. Some people prefer a little more detail in their imaginary world. There is no reason to go PC about it.

The fact that imposing realism-based penalties on one sex but not the other, thus treating one differently than the other because of their sex, is darn near the very definition of sexual discrimination is not "playing the victim card."

 

[Sadras]

A strength penalty for women would affect their Str saves against magical effects would it not?

True. But would a + in constitution not also give you HP or better saves in Con? Because that seems to be the most common proposal by some posters put forward to counter the STR penalty. Although I do recall Dex and Wis also being mentioned. Lanefan actually expressed its best to counter it with a physical bonus, given STR is a physical stat.

Are you under the impression that Diplomacy cannot be used to sway someone emotionally, or that Insight cannot be used to see cues as to feelings of another character.

This is out of my depth, but I'm not sure if being unable/unwanting to express yourself means you automatically read people worse.

That thing that's fit for my game is that men and women can be equal.

It is like that in my game.

And yes, I would fully expect that if I implemented penalties for men and no penalties for women based on "reflecting reality" that I would be called sexist, because I would literally be imposing a sex-based penalty on one sex and not the other.

Again NO ONE IS STATING THAT! Only suggestions have been made to counter the STR penalty.