D&D 5E Do you miss attribute minimums/maximums?

[Maxperson]

And just that? Aren't men like more likely to be aggressive/violent because testosterone and more likely to suffer from schizophrenia/dementia/etc? that sure warrants a wis penalty. And why stop there? there's more infant mortality among men and more susceptibility to disease -con penalty! And less communicative! -cha penalty! Why do we have to model this one difference when there's tons of these more?

We don't have to model it, and I don't think we should. Racial bonuses and penalties, however, I'm all for. It helps differentiate the races better than just abilities do, and in 5e the large number of stat bonuses means that even if you have a penalty in a stat, you will still be just fine.

 

[Libramarian]

The question always needs to be: "Why make this choice?"

There's always this appeal to either "historical" or "scientific" "reality" when defending what are generally unpopular or controversial decision. But this doesn't really justify anything. It is impossible to properly model every piece of reality in a role-playing game; many, many things are going to fall through the cracks. Every designer is going to have to make choices about what they are going to model and what they going to ignore.

So why is "women are less strong than men" the mechanic you've chosen to model in your game, as opposed to, say, realistic models of cleanliness? Why do you feel it is important enough to plant your flag on the hill for? What is your game communicating by modeling this when many other games have long since moved on from it?

Like or not, these are the kinds of questions you're going to be asked when you make those kinds of choices.

The fact that you can't simulate everything doesn't imply that you have to justify everything you do simulate. If it's good to properly simulate something, but you can only reasonably simulate one more thing, then you should simulate a thing even if it's just a random choice between the remaining things.

If I only have enough time to tidy the house or mow the lawn, I shouldn't allow myself to be paralyzed with indecision just because I have no good reason for choosing one over the other. If I have to flip a coin to choose, I should do so. The idea that you have to justify every action is status quo bias.

So when you "question" those who choose to simulate the male-female strength discrepancy you're really just saying "boo" to it. Which is fine as far as it goes and why I don't personally support it: it upsets women (and a few sensitive men). The chorus of boos is pretty loud. That's a good enough reason not to simulate it (at least in the RAW). No need to concoct sophistic arguments against it that feature the word reality in scare quotes.

 

[Libramarian]

I genuinely believe that anyone who thinks adding sexism to a game about fantasy and having fun should neuter themselves with a meat tenderizer before drinking everything they can find under the kitchen sink. It has no place in gaming and no place in society, it is unacceptable to think it is and still call yourself a human being. I despise the kind of people who think discrimination based on sex,colour and/or ethnicity is a fun thing to introduce, they are the same kind of people who drag humanity lower each day and make my soul just cringe at the thought of them ever procreating. /endrant

[MENTION=11821]Obryn[/MENTION] you've shown your true colours by XPing this. It's one thing for a new account to drive-by troll a thread with a crazy rant. It's more disturbing when a long-time and typically reasonable poster discloses how hateful they really are by agreeing with it.

 

[tuxedoraptor]

removed to stop arguements

 

[Maxperson]

Alright, I should probably clarify: I am NOT a troll. I just find the fact people think sexism,racisim and pretty much any form of discrimination is apropriate in anything to be absolutely revolting.

Then stop acting like a troll. Not one person here has advocated any of the above, and it takes a troll to accuse those here of wanting it.

 

[tuxedoraptor]

removed to stop arguements

 

[ccs]

Out of curiosity, how many people have created strength focused halflings?

Raises hand.
For an upcoming PF game I rolled up a 1/2ling barbarian. Due to being a 1\2ling they topped out at a 16 str starting. And I don't really envision raising it as the character concept isn't just "Do more damage".

 

[Obryn]

[MENTION=11821]Obryn[/MENTION] you've shown your true colours by XPing this. It's one thing for a new account to drive-by troll a thread with a crazy rant. It's more disturbing when a long-time and typically reasonable poster discloses how hateful they really are by agreeing with it.

Gosh, Libramarian, I have no idea how I will sleep at night having disappointed you.

If you think he's a drive-by troll with a crazy rant, report his post. And stop assuming that XP is a blanket approval of an entire post and/or posting history, 'cuz that ain't how I use it.

 

[Obryn]

Of course that's what it is. That's the point. What is decided as being a part of the game world becomes realistic inside that game. They decided dragons have a flux capacitor or whatever else and that allows them to fly, so it does and is now realistic for the game. Halflings have no such thing, which is why the game is broken when it comes to halflings and strength.

The fluff describes them as small gives them the appearance of weakness, the rules don't. That disconnect is the game breaking at that point. Admittedly, it's a very small break, but it's a break none the less. Fluff and crunch have to match up where appropriate. Not all rules have fluff attached to them.

You know dragons can fly because they have a fly speed. Pretty sure the fluff never describes how they are flying around.

You know there are strong halflings because exceptional individuals can have high strength.

Mechanics can - and do - both imply and create the game narrative.

 

[Maxperson]

By saying they miss the gender penalties is pretty sexist. Especially in a fantasy world where dragons and wizards exist. It says something about them when they say that women are inferior to men even in a fantasy setting. It just isn't right at all.

You do realize that you just very literally argued that women are inferior to men in real life, right? That's the only way that a penalty in game could be sexist due to inferiority.