D&D 5E Question about Druid Wild Shape

[CapnZapp]

It isn't too well thought out for this reason. I used a 20th level druid like this as an enemy for midlevel PCs and it was not fun.

It is worth mentioning it is 95% meant as a player character ability.

And as a whimsical not-really balanced one at that (since capstone abilities are probably in play at 1% of tables if that)

So we really should ask ourselves who took the decision to state up that BBEG as a full character with class level. No NPC stat block would have that ability as written.

I'm not trying to put blame here. I'm only highlighting that you can't and shouldn't use the "you can give your NPCs class levels" rule/suggestion without thought or care.

In this case, few capstone abilities work well as NPC abilities and the druid one might be the worst out of the bunch.

So write this off as a loss and move on, without questioning the system in general, okay? [emoji4]

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[jgsugden]

It is worth mentioning it is 95% meant as a player character ability.

And as a whimsical not-really balanced one at that (since capstone abilities are probably in play at 1% of tables if that)

So we really should ask ourselves who took the decision to state up that BBEG as a full character with class level. No NPC stat block would have that ability as written.

I'm not trying to put blame here...

You're missing the point.

Whether used by a DM for an enemy in one encounter or a PC for several encounters at 20th level, it was not fun when it was in use. We're not talking about balance where NPC vs PC is quite different: We're discussing whether the mechanic was fun to see used in the game. Just as a mechanic where the d20 was constantly rerouted until it was a 20 would not be fun, this was a pedantic mechanic that was tiresome and static rather than exciting and dynamic.

 

[Croesus]

Thanks for the feedback. It does appear to be crazy powerful as is, I'll house rule some limits probably just for my sanity. Each form has hp, retains damage between shifts, and if a form "dies" it can't be used again that day. Not much of a limit, but bopping between Air and Earth Elemental or whatever as a bonus action each round sounds pretty crazy unstoppable all on it's own. The druid is mostly a plot device, styled after one of the Ten Who Were Taken from the Black Company books, "Shifter", so it's not like I need it to maintain game balance.

If you're worried about infinite hit points, it might be a simple as resetting hit points only if the PC spends a turn in his normal form. If he wild shapes from normal to beast, the beast form has full hit points. If he wild shapes from beast to beast, any current hit point damage is not healed. Since battles usually don't last very long, this would limit the druid's opportunities to abuse the hit points of wild shaping.

 

[CapnZapp]

You're missing the point.

Whether used by a DM for an enemy in one encounter or a PC for several encounters at 20th level, it was not fun when it was in use. We're not talking about balance where NPC vs PC is quite different: We're discussing whether the mechanic was fun to see used in the game. Just as a mechanic where the d20 was constantly rerouted until it was a 20 would not be fun, this was a pedantic mechanic that was tiresome and static rather than exciting and dynamic.

Ah, I misunderstood.

I got the impression you were in the "not fun as a NPC ability" camp.

I did not see the shift to discussing it as a player ability.

In fact I'm slightly surprised - it certainly looks like awesome gonzo fun for the player to become essentially impervious to regular damage (the druid is certainly not immune to spells), for that short sweet while before the game ends.

That the ability is broken in a bad way for NPCs, however, is something I hope you don't hold against it, since the only way that would happen is if a DM makes it so - it is unlikely to appear in any official capacity since NPCs aren't PCs in this edition.

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[schnee]

I like a house rules I read in these forums: the 'infinite' Wild Shape is only for animals that a Land Druid is capable of becoming. So, all utility and movement and stealth all the time, but Moon Druids only gets their 'two combat shapes' per short rest just like before on top of that.

Considering the other part of the capstone is 'ignore the need for spell foci and material components (well except for the really expensive ones I guess)' that's more than good enough.