D&D 5E D&D Promises to Make the Game More Queer

[Flexor the Mighty!]

How is the position that people are able to understand well reasoned argument a snobbish or paternalistic position? The opposite, people cannot understand well reasoned argument, seems to me much more condescending.

I'm told feelings come before facts all the time. Join the modern age.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Because an RPG is a group activity in which many people come together to enjoy. Many friends use weekly D&D games to socialize. Those groups are dependent on all members retaining interest in the game. If WotC suddenly starts to target a specific ideology, many groups could torn apart as a result. Or in my case, I could literally end up drowned in a river for continuing to play the "gay game" in the country I life in. There's that, too.

Well, sorry to hear you live in an area like that. Maybe something small like a gay character appearing in a D&D game can serve as the first baby step toward some actual change, even if only in the minds of your fellow players.

But the rest of your reasoning is weak. Movies and books and all form of media are social activities. So are plenty of other activities like sports and the like. And work. If such activities break down because not everyone feels exactly the same way about everything, then we'd none of us ever get anything done.

 

[tombowings]

It's not that people aren't able to understand; people can be amazing when they want to be.

Rather, it's that people allow themselves to be afflicted with deeply ingrained notions that come not from a place of fact; that people are often hesitant to examine things that challenge their points of view, and are often more inclined to dismiss evidence that contradicts their beliefs than they are to admit their beliefs might have a fault in them; and that people have networks of friends and family (and often faith) who reinforce their unchallenged beliefs.

My own opinion on this one will just open another can of worms, which I would prefer to remain closed. I will, therefore, have to decline from commenting.

 

[FrogReaver]

Your example highlights a false equivalency.

EDIT: Or to quote a recent popular tweet...

the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you ******* moron"

Who makes the subjective call of what's good and what's bad?

 

[tombowings]

Well, sorry to hear you live in an area like that. Maybe something small like a gay character appearing in a D&D game can serve as the first baby step toward some actual change, even if only in the minds of your fellow players.

But the rest of your reasoning is weak. Movies and books and all form of media are social activities. So are plenty of other activities like sports and the like. And work. If such activities break down because not everyone feels exactly the same way about everything, then we'd none of us ever get anything done.

OK. I will stick to presenting my preferred method of changing minds:

I present my facts, you present yours, we both analyze them, we discuss and both walk away knowing more about both sides.

 

[Morrus]

. If WotC suddenly starts to target a specific ideology, many groups could torn apart as a result. Or in my case, I could literally end up drowned in a river for continuing to play the "gay game" in the country I life in. There's that, too.

OK, that's enough. Mod time. On this site we are not going to refer to the inclusion of gay characters with the terms "ideology" or "propaganda". EN World does not consider decent human behaviour as "propaganda". If you do, find another community more to your liking. Consider this a site rule for now on. An announcement is forthcoming.

 

[FrogReaver]

Go back a few pages and look at the illustration of how tolerant people do not have to tolerate intolerance. False equivalency, as stated. (Also, who is *actually* being treated "uninclusive"-ly in this thread by people who are pro-inclusive?)

Too long and too fast moving a thread to redirect me back a few pages so I'll ignore that part.

But for the rest.... Your saying that so as long as I view gays as intolerant I don't have to tolearate them? Cool. I didn't know it worked that way. Thanks.... TIC of course.

*TIC = Tongue in Cheek

 

[tombowings]

I'm told feelings come before facts all the time. Join the modern age.

In which case we, as a species, still have room to grow.

 

[Thurmas]

Despite 41 pages on the discussion of propaganda, ideology, agendas, etc, I think it is commendable that as far as I have seen, not a single person has said, or even implied that "gay people are bad, mmmk?" I think that speaks volumes for just how inclusive the D&D community is. I think it is also a wonderful contrast to the constant deluge the media puts out that everyone in America hates everyone else, when in reality it is a very small, vocal minority.

Well done, EN World.

 

[MechaPilot]

Because D&D has the same stakes as sufferance...

The point, which you chose to dismiss, is that people have been facing reprisals for doing things that are important to them, or simply that they enjoy without hurting anyone else, for a long time now.

Since people are so fond of invoking the Nazis in this thread, perhaps it would be pertinent to bring up the subversive swing dance meetings in Nazi Germany.