D&D 5E D&D Promises to Make the Game More Queer

[Shasarak]

Well, historical appropriateness for one thing. If you're trying to play D&D in a poor simulacrum of medieval Europe, and you notice that innkeepers in medieval Europe often had wives, then you give your innkeeper a wife. You don't need to justify it on any other grounds.

But if you give your innkeeper a Siamese twin, or schizophrenia, or a gay lover, or a flamethrower, you're deviating from historical patterns and the players will presume you have a reason for it.

Because everyone knows that there were no Siamese twins, schizophrenia, gay lovers or flame throwers in medieval Europe.

 

[tombowings]

Thank you [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION] for providing me with a way of going to sleep without feeling like I gave up too easily.

Fun discussion, everyone *tips hat*

 

[LordEntrails]

OK, that's enough. Mod time. On this site we are not going to refer to the inclusion of gay characters with the terms "ideology" or "propaganda". EN World does not consider decent human behaviour as "propaganda". If you do, find another community more to your liking. Consider this a site rule for now on. An announcement is forthcoming.

Really sorry to see.

 

[Morrus]

I want to make something clear.

This has been a long time coming - in terms of years. I have added a notice to the top of the site, and this will be added to the rules of the this community.

I want to make it clear that EN World is an inclusive community. You MAY NOT USE the terms "agenda", "ideology", or "propaganda" or "politics" in relation to the inclusion of people slightly different to you in gaming products. You WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE, if you do. I have no patience for that, or any interest in your arguments as to why you think that is OK. It is not OK.

This is not negotiable. If it's a problem for you personally, then you can leave and post in Mos Eisley or wherever. But the resistance to inclusivity in D&D products has made it clear to me this "propaganda" and "ideology" needs to be stamped home even in little places like this.

No action is being taken up till this point. But from now on this is a rule. I know that some of you will leave because of this; I am OK with that.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

People don't change because they compared data. People are not that cold and logical.

IMO, the best people are that way.

Any forum without that kind of people on it is a waste of time, again IMO.

 

[MechaPilot]

IMO, the best people are that way.

Any forum without that kind of people on it is a waste of time, again IMO.

I prefer it when people are not resistant to logical arguments. That said, I also don't prefer people to be cold. There's a fine but desirable balance between unfeeling computer and being irrational and emotional. Sort of how Kirk was the medium ground between Spock and Bones.

 

[Morrus]

Really sorry to see.

I don't care.

 

[Caliban]

IMO, the best people are that way.

Any forum without that kind of people on it is a waste of time, again IMO.

Eh, I don't know. I'm pretty much that way and most people consider me acerbic and unpleasant.

But the fact is that almost everyone has certain ingrained beliefs that they will cling to regardless of logic and evidence.

No matter how logical you believe you are, there are some things you will be incredibly resistant to changing your views about, no matter how well the counter arguments are crafted. You'll just rationalize it away, without even realizing you are doing it. You just know that belief (or fact, or story, or "the way the world works") is inherently correct, and opposing viewpoints are simply wrong.

Sometimes they are minor things, easily overlooked. Sometimes they are major things that will cause you great distress and anger when you are presented with an opposing viewpoint.

 

[Shasarak]

Once again. I have no problem with the presence of LGBT NPCs, I have a problem with blatantly pushing an ideological view. If Crawford had kept his mouth shut and just included the NPCs, I wouldn't have cared, but he had do go and turn it into an ideological issue by making a big deal out of it.

He is regularly on the "Queer as a Three sided Dice" Panel so I think the 'keeping his mouth shut' option has passed.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Eh, I don't know. I'm pretty much that way and most people consider me acerbic and unpleasant.

Well, I generally find you pretty reasonable. At least, I think I do. I don't seem to have any negative associations with the name "Caliban".

But the fact is that almost everyone has certain ingrained beliefs that they will cling to regardless of logic and evidence.

Sure, nobody's perfect. All you can do is your level best; and re-read Feynmann's talk on Cargo Cult Science every once in a while.

No matter how logical you believe you are, there are some things you will be incredibly resistant to changing your views about, no matter how well the counter arguments are crafted. You'll just rationalize it away, without even realizing you are doing it.

Yep, probably. Hopefully the set of things about which that is true shrinks over time as you grow and mature, but who really knows?

Sometimes they are minor things, easily overlooked. Sometimes they are major things that will cause you great distress and anger when you are presented with an opposing viewpoint.

Yep.

Morrus says people with opinions like mine aren't welcome on Enworld, so see you folks around.