D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[Hussar]

Heh, my point buy Ranger has a dump stat Con. - Just to respond to [MENTION=6795602]FrogReaver[/MENTION]'s Point 3. My fighter before that dump statted Dex. And I've certainly seen lots of 8 or 10 Dex characters over the past couple of years. And not a lot of very high Con's.

 

[FrogReaver]

Heh, my point buy Ranger has a dump stat Con. - Just to respond to @FrogReaver's Point 3. My fighter before that dump statted Dex. And I've certainly seen lots of 8 or 10 Dex characters over the past couple of years. And not a lot of very high Con's.

So I'm going to assume your not dumb because at first glace your answer appears to be leaving out so much information that it's hard to believe it's an attempt to answer my question.

So I assume your Ranger is using a primary stat of Dex and that you dumped Con. So yea he definitely is an example of a character that doesn't put his 2nd highest stat into ac or con. However, the question was "how often do you do such things". Cool example though.

For your fighter example: A fighter that Dump statted Dex means he was a Str fighter. I can't tell if this character also dump stated con or whether it was his 2nd highest stat. I don't want to assume here so I suppose it's best to ask? I guess we will have to come back to him.

Anyways these first 2 examples even if they both pan out as true examples of what I am asking about, that still doesn't tell me in general how often you build characters that way.

You do make 1 general observation though. That a lot of characters you have seen have low dex. I have 2 questions about them. Do they obtain AC from some other source like heavy armor? What kind of con would you generalize these low dex characters to have?

 

[Maxperson]

1st level falls pretty far short of a lot of heroic concepts, by definition. If the DM wants the party playing more awesome PCs from the start, he'll start at higher level and/or give a more generous array or more points to buy with or let you roll even more dice for each stat.

Sure, but those are out of reach of point buy and array, too.

Having a concept and getting hung up on exact numbers are two very different things. Up-thread, all sides (there's clearly more than two!) were hurling & vehemently denying the accusation of getting hung-up on numbers, while, well, getting hung up on numbers, as you're doing, right now.

I'm not getting hung up on numbers. I'm just saying there's a big difference between being extremely clumsy(4-5 dex) and a bit clumsy(8 dex). Any concept involving being extremely clumsy isn't going to happen with point buy or array.

Point-buy does let everyone at the table play the concept they want, within the context of the party and the parameters of the game.

This translates into, "Yes, but no.". You can order any steak on the menu, but it has to be New York. You can buy any pair of shoes in the store, but they have to be between sizes 6 and 9. If I'm invited to a game and I bring character concepts with me, only to find out when I get there that it's point buy, I cannot play what I want.

 

[Lanefan]

If it ain't broke don't fix it, point buy is fine for those who want to min/max their characters. Rolling will more times than not result in dissatisfied players who end up dropping out because they aren't happy with their stats.

A player who drops out just because of rolling a poor stat line probably isn't a player you really wanted in the first place.

1st level falls pretty far short of a lot of heroic concepts, by definition.

In some ways, yes; but in other ways the concepts - or certainly the foundations for said concepts - can certainly be in place at 1st level...particularly in 4e where there's such a jump between commoner and 1st level character.

And we're talking concepts, which at 1st level pretty much means potential. A 1st level character can have various heroic concepts...but hasn't yet done the deeds to back those concepts up, and depending on a bunch of factors by far the largest of which is luck, may or may not ever really get the chance.

Lan-"10th level and still no hero, and that's intentional"-efan

 

[Caliban]

A player who drops out just because of rolling a poor stat line probably isn't a player you really wanted in the first place.

Ooh, ooh, Can I play this game too?

"A DM who acts self righteous about enforcing disparity between the players to the point where they don't enjoy the game anymore probably isn't a DM you really wanted in the first place."

See? I can also imply you're a lesser person for not playing the game the way I do! What fun this is!

 

[Yardiff]

What does the top 10% of a given D&D world look like stat wise?

 

[Maxperson]

Ooh, ooh, Can I play this game too?

"A DM who acts self righteous about enforcing disparity between the players to the point where they don't enjoy the game anymore probably isn't a DM you really wanted in the first place."

See? I can also imply you're a lesser person for not playing the game the way I do! What fun this is!

You'd both be right, too. He at least understands the issue. You got it right by accident.

 

[JesterOC]

Are you seriously taking credit for rolling higher stats? It's not a skill, it's just luck. Building a character with point buy is skill.

When I was 16 my "rolled" characters did rely on my skill. I wrote a program to roll my character. First it rolled just the attributes. Then I added hit points. Then I added the ability to re-roll with the hit of a space bar. Then I allowed it to roll until a certain statistical value was met. Me and all my friends wrote these programs, and after we did and the novelty wore off, we all realized point buy was the best.

 

[ScuroNotte]

We started a new campaign a few weeks ago and what we have done is take the standard array of 15,14,13,12,10,8 and added a +2 to each score. When making a character though, no race bonuses were applied. Your stats could still increase through feats or magical items.

When we used the standard array, most selected score boosts with each ability score improvement.
And when we rolled for stats, some rolled poorly while others had great stats, which caused a huge discrepancy.

The higher numbers made the players happy and the GM's responded by simply increasing the stats of the creatures as well. This made the playing filed equal for all while making us (the players) feel better because we got "better stats"

 

[Caliban]

We started a new campaign a few weeks ago and what we have done is take the standard array of 15,14,13,12,10,8 and added a +2 to each score. When making a character though, no race bonuses were applied. Your stats could still increase through feats or magical items.

When we used the standard array, most selected score boosts with each ability score improvement.
And when we rolled for stats, some rolled poorly while others had great stats, which caused a huge discrepancy.

The higher numbers made the players happy and the GM's responded by simply increasing the stats of the creatures as well. This made the playing filed equal for all while making us (the players) feel better because we got "better stats"

And that's a perfectly valid way of doing it. It really comes down to which is more fun for you and your group.

If it's having high stats, let everyone have high stats.

If rolling your stats gives you a thrill (or seems more organic or "realistic"), then that's the best method for you.

If you are pessimistic like me and believe the dice hate you (or simply believe point buy is more fair/balanced/whatever), then point buy is the most fun.