D&D 5E Teleport /fly /misty step the bane of cool dungeon design is RAW in 5E

[Tony Vargas]

Sure they do. Alchemists and other learned scholars of ages past were often considered to be magical.

D&D magic-using classes are mostly based on legends or even actual beliefs about magical powers or miracles. The Cleric has been deemed offensive because it "trivializes biblical miracles," for instance. The wizard draws on the trapping of the hermetic tradition, which was teaching people to do magic into the early 20th century. Sorcerers and Shamans, like 'psychics' in the developed world, practice today.

it doesn't fit here, but that's because the Ancient paladin uses magic in a similar manner to the druid, not the different cleric subclasses. Its nature oriented, not divine, and misty step doesn't feel nature-themed to me.

Misty Step was a fey-pact spell in 4e, and fey had a strong link to nature. Druids teleported (albeit by stepping into and out of trees) all the way back to their firs appearance, IIRC - certainly they did in 1e when I was playing them.

And, suddenly stepping out of the mists doesn't seem too out of line for a mystical nature-warrior.

 

[Coroc]

D&D magic-using classes are mostly based on legends or even actual beliefs about magical powers or miracles. The Cleric is offensive because it "trivializes biblical miracles" for instance. The wizard draws on the trapping of the hermetic tradition, which was teaching people to do magic into the early 20th century. Sorcerers and Shamans, like 'psychics' in the developed world, practice today.

Misty Step was a fey-pact spell in 4e, and fey had a strong link to nature. Druids teleported (albeit by stepping into and out of trees) all the way back to their firs appearance, IIRC - certainly they did in 1e when I was playing them.

And, suddenly stepping out of the mists doesn't seem too out of line for a mystical nature-warrior.

Albeit you need trees for the druid to work this magic and I think it was a fairly high level spell in 1e 2e if I can remember well so not an easy resource to be used wherever you go.

 

[Mephista]

Misty Step was a fey-pact spell in 4e, and fey had a strong link to nature. Druids teleported (albeit by stepping into and out of trees) all the way back to their firs appearance, IIRC - certainly they did in 1e when I was playing them.

And, suddenly stepping out of the mists doesn't seem too out of line for a mystical nature-warrior.

I went into larger detail elsewhere about that. I'm well aware of the whole fey-nature thing, and have a full rant about how that's an inappropriate angle here.

The Ancient paladin is loosely based on the 4e warden, and feypact spells inspire the Archfey warlock. That's two different power sources in D&D, and you'll notice how very little they have in common besides a very loose "fey" label, espeically when 4e made a fairly big distinction between the former being "elf" themed and the latter "eldarin" themed. Or wood elf versus high elf using 5e terms.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The Ancient paladin is loosely based on the 4e warden, and feypact spells inspire the Archfey warlock. That's two different power sources in D&D

It was two different sources in 4e. In 5e, it's all spells, and spell lists share a lot of identical spells, even across theoretical 'source' boundaries.

 

[Hussar]

It was two different sources in 4e. In 5e, it's all spells, and spell lists share a lot of identical spells, even across theoretical 'source' boundaries.

For me that's the problem. It mashes the casters together and makes them very bland. Again this is to me, not a general condemnation.

I'd prefer if the casters kept their spell lists a bit more distinct.

 

[Ancalagon]

I'm getting a lot of "well the paladin isn't a paladin anymore, it's also a warden and an avenger and all these other classes!"... erm... that's not a good thing. The paladin is an archetype. What are these other things? It's not quite "goblin with a cricket bat" level but...

For me that's the problem. It mashes the casters together and makes them very bland. Again this is to me, not a general condemnation.

I'd prefer if the casters kept their spell lists a bit more distinct.

I concur. I mean it's neat if it's a special power of the fire-cleric that he can cast fireball, but *everyone* is dipping in other people's spell lists.

 

[Mort]

I'm getting a lot of "well the paladin isn't a paladin anymore, it's also a warden and an avenger and all these other classes!"... erm... that's not a good thing. The paladin is an archetype. What are these other things? It's not quite "goblin with a cricket bat" level but...

Why are potential options a bad thing?

You can have the straight archetypal paladin and that's it - the DM is under no obligation to allow anything outside of an oath of devotion typical paladin, and players may only want that anyway.

BUT, if the DM (or player, with the DMs ok) wants something a bit different, the options are there for it, and frankly they're pretty good.


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[Hussar]

Why are potential options a bad thing?

You can have the straight archetypal paladin and that's it - the DM is under no obligation to allow anything outside of an oath of devotion typical paladin, and players may only want that anyway.

BUT, if the DM (or player, with the DMs ok) wants something a bit different, the options are there for it, and frankly they're pretty good.


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I see what you're saying, and, by and large I agree. Options are a good thing. But, there is a limit isn't there? I mean, we don't want fighters shout healing. And, if you look at the other fighty classes, they manage to keep their archetype pretty strongly. Rangers, of whatever flavor, still come out looking a lot like rangers. Nature warriors whose magic focuses on nature stuff.

Heck, if it makes sense that Oath of Ancient paladins get misty step, then why don't rangers get it? Or druids? Aren't they just a tied, if not moreso to nature stuff?

And, again, for me, the big thing is, Misty Step just stands out. The only other movement spell that paladins get is Tree Stride and that's at 17th level. Not really something that's going to come up all that often in most games. And only Oath of Ancient paladins get that. Oath of Vengeance only get Misty Step. So, you have these spell lists that are pretty strongly themed - lots of making people very dead very quickly stuff, some healing and some information gathering. And then, sticking out like a sore thumb in the early levels is this short range teleport spell that none of the other divine casters get. Clerics and Druids don't get Misty Step at all.

So, we have wizards, sorcerers and warlocks ... and paladins with this spell. Umm, one of these things is not like the others.

 

[KahlessNestor]

Didn’t like Travel Domain in previous editions get teleporting spells? I don't see why it necessarily can't be on a divine spell list.

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[Mort]

... So, you have these spell lists that are pretty strongly themed - lots of making people very dead very quickly stuff,.. .

That's probably your answer right there, at least for the vengeance oath. Misty Step is a short range fast teleport that allows one to get close to (and away from, but that's not a vengeance oath thing) a target very quickly. It's something a 4e avenger could do and they threw it into here.

As for the Ancients oath? Well, it is a fey wild flavored spell that, again, has big combat utility. I don't remember the 4e warden class that well, but I bet they had something like it. That's probably the extent of the developer's thinking.

As for not fitting the theme? Well it certainly doesn't fit the traditional paladin theme, but a holy warrior of a trickster god, travel gods etc. Could fit fine.

All that said, this particular issue is pretty straight forward, don't like it? It's not in your game.





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