D&D 5E Re-opening discussion on multiple spell concentration.

[CapnZapp]

I think that the concentration rules as they are pretty good.

My biggest beef is that archmages and epic casters should not have to labor under the restrictions of lesser beings.

That's why I suggested repurposing Spell Mastery (upthread)



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[Gadget]

I would be more inclined to introduce an 'overpowered' item to the game to test the concept out. The Crown of Power allows a spell caster to concentrate on two spells at once by taking the concentration for one of the spells from the caster for the duration. Once the spell is done, one of the 7 jewels in the crown fades to grey; once all jewels are grey, the Crown can no longer function to hold concentration until bathed in the light of a new moon for x hours. This goes along with other items the could be perceived as 'breaking' the game (belt of Giant Strength, etc.) by allowing the PC to bypass hard stops in the game (maximum attribute scores or maintaining concentration on two spells at ounce) and restricts the ability initially as players cannot reasonably expect the very rare or artifact level item to drop or be easily acquired. If it is deemed to powerful or disruptive, DMs can quietly eliminate it from the campaign, though taking already found items from PCs can be problematic.

I would certainly not make a feat out it. D&D has gone down the 'make a feat out of it' path far to often and with far too little thought in the past, and it is one of the things that has soured me on feats a bit. Suddenly, the new feat is 'required' for a certain type of (or most) builds.

Edit: I'm also kind of partial to [MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION]'s suggestion above: it is measured and limited in scope, but still gives some juice.

 

[Stalker0]

If you go for a class ability, I think as the 20th level wizard ability it looks good. The current wizard capstone is pretty lame, but that is much more interesting.

Beyond that, I will say that while limiting spell levels on it is one way... low level spells actually scale very well in 5e. Being able to concentrate on a 1st level spell along with my 6th level one is still hugely good. I do think reducing their actions is a decent option, another is to give them a big penalty of concentration checks (perhaps disadvantage).

 

[Thurmas]

My biggest beef is that archmages and epic casters should not have to labor under the restrictions of lesser beings.

That's why I suggested repurposing Spell Mastery (upthread)

[/URL]

If I were to suggest a change to the concentration rules, I would focus on keeping it simple. I think the biggest downside to concentration is you can choose to help your allies or suppress your enemies, but not both.

I'd suggest adding a new mechanic, called something like Willpower or something.

Concentration spells: Same as currently implemented, but concentration is only for buffs and other spells that effect you and your allies. (Aura of Vitality, Bless, Haste, etc)

Willpower Spells: Work the same way as concentration, but have to do with any spells that seek to control or impose your will on the environment or creatures around you. (Wall of Fire, Bigby's Hand, Hypnotic Pattern, etc).

You can only have one of each type of spell up at the same time.

A spell has either concentration or willpower required, but not both.

 

[Thurmas]

My biggest beef is that archmages and epic casters should not have to labor under the restrictions of lesser beings.

That's why I suggested repurposing Spell Mastery (upthread)

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I'll also say, while I like the thought, I disagree because it shouldn't be restricted to only Wizards. Other powerful characters, such as druids or clerics, should be able to attain it as well.

 

[Tom Donovan]

At our table Concentration is the #1 rule we misplay.
Forget check on damage, forget to cancel spell when cast another concentration, wrong timing of spell duration.
So I suggest you to keep any additional rules very simple.

A feat is the simpler way.
To start make a feat that allow to choose 4 spells that allow MSC.
It need a try out.

I like your idea of limiting the number of spells that a caster can have available for msc. It gives it that signature spell feel.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Isn't being able to concentrate on more than one spell an ability that sorcerers already have via Twin Spell? I feel like expanding that ability to other classes would give players one less reason to play a sorc.

Only technically. Twin spell allows a sorcerer to concentrate on two of the same spell at the same time (two invisibility spells, for example). While what is being discussed here could be used to do that, it could more effectively be used for two synergistic spells, such as invisibility and pass without trace. That's a significant difference.

As long as you give non-sorcerer MSC sufficient drawbacks, it shouldn't impinge on the sorcerer. It only becomes an issue if it is better than Twin Spell.

 

[LapBandit]

I was so happy when single concentration was in 5E that I would never ever allow it, ESPECIALLY not ever allow a wizard to do it who already has the best spell list and versatility. As it is higher level magic 7/8/9 can break the game or be an I WIN button for many situations, no need for exacerbate the issue.

If you are going to allow this, you had better enforce Disadvantage on the Concentration checks at the least.

 

[jodyjohnson]

Concentration: A spell with Concentration (C) ends when you die or the duration expires.

That's it. If it was good enough for 1e/2e/3.x/PF it shouldn't destroy your game.

Just make sure you still do 6-8 encounters per day with 2 short rests.

 

[Nevvur]

I'm curious, what spell combinations do people think would break the game if you could concentrate on two spells at once? Feel free to use any spell class list, including multiclassing, to answer the question.

I've thought about making this an archetype feature, specifically for a "Mage" wizard archetype who was supposed to be an answer to the AD&D 2e generalist, and a "Songweaver" bard. The feature didn't make it into either final version due to balance concerns, but I ask the question above because I never really took the time to explore how possibly broken it could be.

In any case, the "Mage" version of expanded concentration was their level 14 archetype feature. It was a simple feature, lets you concentrate on two spells at once. No real penalty or constraint for doing so, but if you had to make a concentration check, it could fizzle both effects. Worth noting that some balancing was done against his other archetype features, which were even more ribbon-y than other wizard schools. If I felt like revisiting the idea, I'd probably put a limit on the spell slot you can use on one or both spells, maybe 3rd of 5th level. The Songweaver was a bit different. You could spend a point of bardic inspiration to extend an effect for an additional round after concentration ended. It was a quick way to run out BI, but my experience with bards have been that they don't use BI enough anyway, so I was kind of happy with it.

Neither archetype ever saw live play, so the ideas remain essentially theorycraft.

Back to the OP, I don't think this should be a general spellcasting rule. Magic users have a big enough advantage over martial classes already, no need to widen the gulf. I like it as a possible archetype feature for a homebrew, as I did in the aforementioned examples, but tacking it on as a freebie class feature feels way too generous to me, even if it does have significant constraints. There should be a cost to selecting this option. Thus, it could also be functional as a feat, though I would want to see some constraints here, too. Limiting it with a spell slot level cap would be a good step in the right direction. I heard disadvantage on concentration checks earlier, that would be reasonable to me, too.