D&D 5E Softening Concentration

[Worrgrendel]

So I came up with an alternate concentration rule that my groups have been running with since nearly the beginning of 5E. I DM for one group and play in the other. I ran HOTDQ to level 17 (added some other things to get it to that level) and ran the Legendary Planet adventure path to level 20 and have started Odyssey of the Dragonlords with this change (currently level 4). The campaign I play in is my wife’s first shot at DM’ing and she’s running Call of the Netherdeep and we’re currently level 7. Basically it comes down to this: you can hold onto multiple concentration spells when you reach certain levels of spells. Take the highest level spell slot you can cast and divide by 3 and that’s how many concentration spells you can hold and the maximum level for each. So when you can cast 3rd level spells you can concentrate on 1 spell of up to 3rd level and then also concentrate on a 2nd spell but it can only be a maximum of 1st level. When you get to 6th level spells you can hold 2 concentration spells. 1 can be a maximum of 6th and the 2nd a maximum of 2nd (6/3=2). When you can cast 9th level spells you can hold 3 total concentrations. 1 at a maximum of 9th, 1 at a maximum of 3rd (9/3=3), and 1 at a maximum of 1st (9/3/3=1). If you must make a concentration check you must do it separately for each spell you are concentrating on. Basically what we found was that as casters got to higher levels those lower level concentration spells just never got use much anymore and they really weren’t game breaking holding on to them and a higher spell. My NPC’s did the same so it wasn’t only the PC’s taking advantage.

 

[Arilyn]

I never used concentration. Dumped it right off the bat with no ill effects on my game.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Why would you contemplate giving any buffs whatsoever to casters, when it is non-casters who need it far more?

How has concentration worked for you? Have you noticed these issues? Do you think some manner of softening concentration (perhaps breaking it into it's two components so spells don't necessarily have to have both limitations) would mess up more than it fixed? Have you tried any adjustments to the mechanic, and if so, how did they work out?

In my experience, it is one of the few genuinely good mechanics in 5e--specifically because it forces such uncomfortable/undesirable choices on spellcasters. Specifically because it is inconvenient.

It is the "softening" of limitations on spellcasting that got 3.X/PF1 into the horrific state it has with martial/caster balance. Of course, it is preferable for limitations to be not so much "frustrating" as "challenging," e.g. being forced to make difficult decisions rather than feeling like you're never allowed to do anything fun.

 

[Xeviat]

But they're often not difficult decisions. Some concentration spells look so bad compared to others that you just don't use them. I've never seen Resist Elements cast in any game I've DMed or played in except the one time I tried to use it when fighting a dragon and lost my concentration immediately when I got breathweaponed.

There's a reason concentration was removed from Divine Favor and other spells. There's a reason a few subclasses got concentration free versions of some spells.

 

[Shadowedeyes]

Concentration is a great mechanic, and I wouldn't change anything about it. Some spells certainly need to be looked at, and either brought up or down depending. There are even some that might warrant loosing concentration. But changing the mechanic? I think that is a bad idea, as a number of the issues with 3.0/3.5 it solved, IMO.

 

[Stormonu]

I've been thinking of going the other direction, making Concentration more integrated.

I've been considering the following for "attack" concentration spells:

If you don't use an action on a concentration spell, spell works normally.
If you use a bonus action, opponent makes any saves with disadvantage.
If you use your action, the opponent doesn't get a save (automatically fails) that round.

I'd like to have something similar for beneficial/positive spells, but haven't tried it yet. I'm considering:

If you don't use an action on a concentration spell, spell works normally.
If you use a bonus action, roll a D20, subtracting the spell's level. If you get 11+, the spell's duration does not tick down a round (if it's a long duration spell, just increase spell duration by 50%)
If you use an action, the spell's duration does not tick down a round (In non-combat, any general activity - especially one requiring a skill check - would prevent you from using an action towards extending the duration. If the party is generally exploring or traveling, double the spell's duration. If the party remains in one spot, triple the spell's duration).

-OR-

If you don't use an action on concentration spell, spell works normally.
If you use a bonus action, you gain Advantage on any concentration saves.
If you use a action, you can't fail/get some huge bonus on concentration saves.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Concentration annoys me. The problem it set out to solve was spell combos and layering buffs (and probably self-buffing too), things that were a menace in 3.5.

But even if most buff spells weren't nerfed into the ground (I mean, enlarge for +1d4 weapon damage? As a second level spell slot?), all this does is prevent anyone from using them ever, as you have more important spells to concentrate on.

Cast magic weapon or fly to help your BSF? Sorry my guy, sleet storm, slow, sickening radiance, wall of force, and many more, are higher priority, and have a greater impact!

And spell combos, sure, those can get nasty, but all that prevents is one spellcaster being able to pull them off. Two or more still can, and it's trivial to have a party full of spellcasters in 5e.

Then of course, the DC of concentration is fairly low- most concentration checks are going to be DC 10 anyways, and only banning feats and multiclassing is going to prevent someone from figuring out how to get an effective +9 to their check eventually (I'm reminded of the 3.5 Concentration skill, which could easily be bulked up so that casting on the defensive was an automatic feat).

I know a lot of people are terrified of casters getting more powerful, lol, and removing concentration is the stuff of their nightmares (some want all spells to be interruptible, and for spells to have a chance to turn the caster inside out, for fun!), but I don't think concentration is doing what it's meant to be doing, and it's not a great balancing force on spells either. In fact, the one thing I've noticed it does do (and the main reason why I'm loath to remove it from my game) is keep players from casting leveled spells willy-nilly, lol. Because if my players could cast leveled spells every turn, they would, but the fact that many cool spells have concentration attached to them just narrowly avoids 5MWD's.

I'll stop short of saying how I think spells should work, because that's beyond the scope of the thread's topic.

Another reason for concentration was to "throttle" spellcasting rate to reduce the prevalence of the 5 round working day.
By preventing pre-casting of summons, buffs etc for a fight, the spellcasters would have more slots available for the next fight.
Throwing up a powerful concentration spell and then using cantrips and lower level spell becomes a viable playstyle to keep up with the martials, and gives spellcasters more endurance for the next encounter.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Concentration serves an important purpose in 5e. It prevents a major power imbalance between parties that have casters who can stack multiple buffs before a battle and throw around multiple save or sucks during a battle, and those who do not. It means the game doesn't have to be built to account for that. And the most important benefit for me is that it eliminates the hassle of maintain lots and lots and lots and lots (ever play high level 3e?) of buffs on the party.

However, after playing 5e for 10 years, we've developed some dissatisfaction with it. It seems like its restrictiveness eliminates too many options.

There are interesting spells no one ever takes because they aren't worth the concentration cost. Since you can only ever concentrate on one spell at a time, you are likely going to pick a very small number of them to learn or prepare. There's little point walking around with an arsenal of known/prepared concentration spells for situations that will rarely come up, when you can just pick your favorite concentration buff and maybe a concentration debuff that is situationally awesome, and prepare other spells you know you will actually be able to use because they don't require concentration.

The game is never going to be so balanced that all spells are equally interesting and desirable, but when there are lots of spells that are both too underwhelming to be worth choosing because of their concentration, but would be too powerful to be balanced without concentration, we have a problem.

While I don't have a solution yet, I do have some observations, and I'm interested in hearing other people's experiences (especially those who have played a lot) with how the concentration rules have worked for you, if you've noticed the same sorts of undesirable consequences we have, and any solutions you may have tried.

First observation: Debuffs that both require concentration and allow the target a save to end every turn feel undesirable, because the likelihood of getting them to stick long enough to be worth their slot is rather low. It seems like it might just not be necessary for both of those things to be in play at the same time, since they individually accomplish the same goal anyway.

Second observation: With the typical combat assumed to be 3 rounds, and most combat buffs lasting 1 minute, unless you regularly surprise your foes and are able to stay hidden while casting verbal components, you aren't going to be able to cast many buffs in a particular combat anyway. Most of the time, casters probably aren't going to want to cast more than one of these 1 minute buffs, maybe 2 if they are a dedicated support caster or had the chance to prepare. It seems like the 1 minute duration might have already mostly solved the problem, making concentration a redundant solution that limits other possibilities (like casting a buff and then still being able to cast a debuff).

Third observation: Concentration really handles two different issues. The first is the issue of having too many spells maintained at once. Concentration limits you to only having one concentration spell. The second is the issue of not wanting to have a character (whether a PC or the BBEG) failing one save and it being game over because now they are stuck while the other side pummels them to death. Concentration allows you to end a spell by attacking its caster. The problem is that it is not necessarily true that spells that need one of these solutions also need the other. By making a single concentration mechanic, both limitations are being forced on any spell that could benefit from having one of them.

I could go on and on (and will if I do not stop myself) so I'm going to try leave it there for the first post.

How has concentration worked for you? Have you noticed these issues? Do you think some manner of softening concentration (perhaps breaking it into it's two components so spells don't necessarily have to have both limitations) would mess up more than it fixed? Have you tried any adjustments to the mechanic, and if so, how did they work out?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

I've had similar observations, particularly the third one.

However, the only change I've really considered is elimination of concentration saves from damage for PC spellcasters. I'm fine with the PCs using attacks to break the concentration of the NPCs, but I don't think the NPCs breaking the concentration of the PCs is particularly good. It just never feels very fair as a balancing mechanism.

Unfortunately, I think the overall state of how poorly balanced spells are in general means that I have very little interest in implementing the change. Spells are busted. Spells are so busted that everything else in the game doesn't compare to them at all. They eclipse all other abilities, especially beyond level 11. It's so bad that the reflex for making martial characters better is often "give them spells."

It's so bad that I've played campaigns with only non-casters and half-casters, and the half-casters still felt head and shoulders above the non-casters in terms of capability. The game felt much better, but it was still the casters able to do a lot more. You can literally halve spell progression and still be better. That's absurd.

2024 might raise the floor for non-casters, but I tend to doubt it will be enough. Without playing it for awhile as presented, I would be unwilling to give any power boosts to spellcasting in any way. Concentration could stand to see improvement, but it's much lower priority than anything else to me.

 

[Rabulias]

However, the only change I've really considered is elimination of concentration saves from damage for PC spellcasters. I'm fine with the PCs using attacks to break the concentration of the NPCs, but I don't think the NPCs breaking the concentration of the PCs is particularly good. It just never feels very fair as a balancing mechanism.

You could add a feat or feature like Flawless Concentration from the Solasta: Crown of the Magister video game, where you don't have to make Concentration saves unless you take more than 10 points of damage (or some other threshold).

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

In my games I keep Concentration, but give no limit to how many of those you can have at the same time. You make a different check for each effect you are maintaining. The DC increases by +1 for each spell over 1 you maintain. (I'm also really cruel when it comes to thing that trigger a concentration check: surprise attack, most conditions, etc).