D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[Maxperson]

You keep repeating that like it's true. It's not.

I repeat it because it's factually true. Your denials can't change facts.

In THAT system, the full range of PC stats is 8-15.

There is no "that system". 5e only has one system, and that system is to roll 4d6-L or choose an array if you don't want to roll. At the DMs option, point buy can be added to the rolling and array system. Choosing the array or point doesn't eliminate rolling as part of the system, so the full range of stats for a PC is 3-20 after racial adjustments.

but, again, that isn't a realism issue, it's a personal taste one.

Again, you have no ability to make realism not the issue.

It is no more realistic that a 1st level PC has a max cap of 20 (after racial bonuses) or 17.

Again, that's completely false. Random is more realistic than point buy or array, as you can't control what stats you get in real life. In real life you have the full range of possible stats available to you, unlike point buy or array. It will always be more realistic to roll.

 

[Hriston]

A tighter curve that still goes all the way from 3-18 can be derived from using 5d4-2 instead of straight 3d6. Using physical dice this is obviously more cumbersome, but electronically the effort required should be about the same.

With my limited mathematical abilities, that looks like it conforms pretty well to a normal distribution, certainly better than 3d6. It seems a little bulgy at two standard deviations, similar to 3d6 in that respect (slightly worse actually), but at least it doesn't have the problem 3d6 does, which is that it produces 100% of results well within three standard deviations, whereas a normal distribution would have only 99.7% of "results" within three standard deviations, following the 68-95-99.7 rule.

 

[Tony Vargas]

You keep repeating that like it's true. It's not. In THAT system, the full range of PC stats is 8-15.

Well, pre-racial. More practically, the full range of PC stats is up to 20, since you can get there, eventually - and you can get there with either of the systems in the PH.

You can also pick a die-rolling mechanic or a point-buy formula to allow different ranges or distributions - Lan has again mentioned 5d4-2, for instance, RQ used 2d6+6 or 2d6+3 for some stats for some races, among others. Range of stats is not an attribute that differentiates methodologies in general, only specific implementations of them. In 5e, the standard array delivers 8-15, as does point buy, and random whatever you roll - but all of them can get you to 20 in the course of the campaign thanks to ASIs, so the upper limit is moot.
As to the lower limit, crappy rolled characters tend to get re-rolled...

Die rolling may allow for a broader range of stats, but, again, that isn't a realism issue,

Realism or V-tude or whatever, it kinda is, for the same reason that choosing race & background is less 'realistic' than generating them randomly. Because it's mostly outside the character's control - mostly, choices made in life might effect how strong vs how well-read you are, for instance, though that could all be pushed to proficiency in skills if you wanted to conceive of them that way...

 

[Wiseblood]

What is this thread about?

 

[Caliban]

What is this thread about?

Being "right". Or failing that - proving that someone else is "wrong". Because agreeing that different people like different things and that is OK is just going to far.

 

[smbakeresq]

Commoners' straight 10s look like a hint.

A great hint. And look at other “common” types in the books, like Guard or Cult fanatic, NPC who have a “job” in the game world and see what their stats are.


Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app

 

[Satyrn]

Being "right". Or failing that - proving that someone else is "wrong". Because agreeing that different people like different things and that is OK is just going to far.

Nuh-uh.

 

[Caliban]

In other news, since I play a lot of AL and need to create new characters all the time, the next character concept I'm working on is a 6 INT Orc ArchFey(chain pact) Warlock who is bossed around by his Sprite familiar (the Sprite was the Orc's adoptive father before dying, which caused his son the Orc to make a pact with an Archfey to get the spirit of his father back...) . Yes, this is with point buy.

 

[Lanefan]

You keep repeating that like it's true. It's not. In THAT system, the full range of PC stats is 8-15.

In that system, perhaps; but in the game as a whole the range is and always has been 3-18.

Try as you might it's simply impossible to spin your way out of a rather obvious fact: 8-15 is a narrower (and thus more limiting) range than 3-18. 3-18 is in turn narrower and more limiting than, say, 3e where stats were almost open-ended both ways once play got going.

It's also impossible to spin your way out of another only slightly less obvious fact: dice rolling in any form using more than one die is going to give a bell curve across a range, and natural reality - like it or not - works in bell curves. What this means is - again, like it or not - dice rolling gives a (relatively) more realistic result: a bell curve.

Die rolling may allow for a broader range of stats, but, again, that isn't a realism issue, it's a personal taste one.

No, personal taste comes in only when deciding whether to ignore or discard the two facts above in favour of a system that is both more restricted and more balanced.

Lanefan

 

[Lanefan]

With my limited mathematical abilities, that looks like it conforms pretty well to a normal distribution, certainly better than 3d6. It seems a little bulgy at two standard deviations, similar to 3d6 in that respect (slightly worse actually), but at least it doesn't have the problem 3d6 does, which is that it produces 100% of results well within three standard deviations, whereas a normal distribution would have only 99.7% of "results" within three standard deviations, following the 68-95-99.7 rule.

OK, I'll take your word for that. All way over my head...