We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[Morrus]

Yes. I'm saying a large number of things in the movie don't follow real world logic. A lightsaber can't work the way it is described, hyperspace isn't really a thing, there is no sound in space, and so on. Most of the physics in the movie are just nonsense. It's been like that for a while. Lucas even used parsec as a measurement for speed and an explanation had to be given in books for that to make any sense...but it was just covering up for poor understanding of physics and artistic license by the filmmakers.

I wish it wasn't like that, but we kind of have to go in with a healthy sense of "Did that really happen exactly that way or the the filmmakers really want to show us a cool explosion so even though an explosion shouldn't be able to happen...it does anyways?"

Pretty much if we look at something and think "Huh...that doesn't make much sense the way it is explained to us" then we have to assume there is another explanation they just haven't given us or the movie is just wrong.

3 of us walked out of the theatre saying "They were on a planet too far away to see the beam. That doesn't make any sense. How did they see that beam?" and no one could come up with an answer for it. The 3 of us were positive that the planet they were on was very far away since they had established that through a lot of other dialog (everyone died in the Hosnian system, they didn't die...they weren't in the Hosnian system). So, we were left with 2 conflicting things the movie told us: They were super far away and yet they saw the beam in the sky which physics tells us is impossible. So, we just walked out confused and frustrated that the movie told us 2 different things. However, most of us were willing to bet that given Star Wars' (and especially JJ Abrams') history with fudging physics for storytelling, that it's likely they just wanted our heroes to see the explosion in the sky and react to it, physics be damned.

When we found out later that the novel and the official lorekeeper, Pablo Hidalgo had both answered the question with "weird hyperspace rip" that could be seen everywhere in the galaxy, we shrugged and figured it was a retroactive attempt to explain poor filmmaking.


That's because you never responded to any of them at all. You didn't explain why all the logical inconsistencies don't matter.

This conversation could be summarized as:
You: "They have to be in the same system, you couldn't see it in the sky otherwise"
Me: "But the lore people at Lucasfilm say that the planets are super far apart and even give an explanation as to why you can see the beam so far away."
You: "None of that matters since it isn't in the movie. They have to be in the same system, you couldn't see it in the sky otherwise."
Me: "Fine. But the movie pretty much says they aren't in the same system. Multiple times. Plus if they were in the same system, the entire plot wouldn't make sense. How do you respond to that?"
You: "But they have to be in the same system, you couldn't see it in the sky otherwise."

There's one piece of evidence that says they are in the same system and about 20 pieces that they aren't.

I don’t know whether you’re unable to understand my point or you’re being deliberately obtuse, and you’re completely mischaracterising the conversation. You’re not debating in good faith. I’m done.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I don’t know whether you’re unable to understand my point or you’re being deliberately obtuse, and you’re completely mischaracterising the conversation. You’re not debating in good faith. I’m done.

I apologize if I mischaracterized your argument. I really thought that's what you were saying. It was good talking with you, however.

 

[hopeless]

My head canon is that Starkiller Base is so called because when it draws power from the system's sun it devastates anything passing between it and the sun it's drawing power from.
They used the Holo Network to advertise their horrifying act but Finn did hear those screams before they were able to watch the devastation.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

So ... like it or not, we have The Last Jedi. Where to from here for Episode IX?

I have this sense that the series has written itself into a box at this point that it will be hard to get out of (or ... gasp ... requires more than one movie).


So the state of the universe appears to be:

(1) There are about 20 people left in the Resistance, all loaded on the Millennium Falcon. Fleet, fighters, transports ... gone.

(2) The Republic's capital is dead, and their entire military is destroyed.

(3) The First Order is taking over, though we don't actually see it, and it doesn't seem like they have that much with which to take over the galaxy.

(4) The Resistance's allies have not come to their aid.

(5) We have one untrained Force User against a trained-but-unstable Kylo (and presumably the Knights of Ren).

Goal: Rebuild the Resistance/Republic, beat back the First Order, restore peace and justice to the Old New Republic (tm).

How do you do it?

 

[hopeless]

The Doctor turns up witnesses that travesty of a movie travels back and slaps Luke before he enters Ben's bedroom telling him to grow up!

Then for good measure he visits whoever wrote that script and rewrites it before asking UNIT to tell Disney to cut the crap!

 

[pukunui]

Sure there is. C3PO was mistake by the Ewoks as their god, so we know they exist in the galaxy.

I'd forgotten that it is against C3-PO's programming to impersonate a deity. Thanks for reminding me. That said, the term "Godspeed" still rubs me the wrong way. It just doesn't feel like something someone in the GFFA would say.

He also calls for a medic.

That too. [Although I thought he was calling for a medpack the first time I saw it.]

I agree. Looking a Snoke during the movie, he looks burned and scarred. He also has mannerisms and uses phrases very similar to one Palpatine, so I thought perhaps he could be the Emperor who survived his fall into the reactor. He may even have gone to the far regions to recover.

I don't think Snoke is Palpatine. For one thing, Snoke is taller, and he is described in multiple places as being an alien, meaning he's not human. Yes, that could be obfuscation, but still ... I'm fairly certain he is someone different. I also am not convinced that his "injuries" are wound scars. They could just be a side effect from his over-reliance on the dark side of the Force. We'll have to wait and see if LucasFilm ever actually reveals the backstory they've finally developed for him.

My head canon is that Starkiller Base is so called because when it draws power from the system's sun it devastates anything passing between it and the sun it's drawing power from.

I thought it was called "Starkiller" because it kills stars in order to power its weapon. [As an aside, another of my pet peeves is when Finn says it "uses the power of the sun". It would be more appropriate to say it draws its power from "a star".]

Goal: Rebuild the Resistance/Republic, beat back the First Order, restore peace and justice to the Old New Republic (tm).

How do you do it?

Well, according to Leia, they have everything they need right there. One can only presume she is referring to: a rust-bucket of a ship infested with porgs, a handful of gung-ho rebels, a fledgling Jedi with a broken lightsaber, and plenty of hope.

Of course, there's also that Force-wielding slave kid on Cantonica who has Rose's Rebel Alliance ring. Maybe he's the next Anakin ...




On a different note: one implication of Rey's backstory being that she was "sold for drinking money" is that she was, at some point, Unkar Plutt's slave. But she doesn't appear to be his slave when we meet her in TFA. Sure, she's beholden to him for food, but there's no indication that he owns her or that she owes him anything. She just appears to be someone who sells him scavenged starship parts in order to survive (and who dreads the thought of still living that way when she's old and wrinkled ...).

 

[hopeless]

Or it turns out Kylo has a twin sister whose not force sensitive but more than capable of kicking Kylo's backside.

Her name?

Ania Solo!

 

[Derren]

So ... like it or not, we have The Last Jedi. Where to from here for Episode IX?

I have this sense that the series has written itself into a box at this point that it will be hard to get out of (or ... gasp ... requires more than one movie).


So the state of the universe appears to be:

(1) There are about 20 people left in the Resistance, all loaded on the Millennium Falcon. Fleet, fighters, transports ... gone.

(2) The Republic's capital is dead, and their entire military is destroyed.

(3) The First Order is taking over, though we don't actually see it, and it doesn't seem like they have that much with which to take over the galaxy.

(4) The Resistance's allies have not come to their aid.

(5) We have one untrained Force User against a trained-but-unstable Kylo (and presumably the Knights of Ren).

Goal: Rebuild the Resistance/Republic, beat back the First Order, restore peace and justice to the Old New Republic (tm).

How do you do it?

As force ghosts can still use lightning Ghostluke simply fries Kylo.
Or the first order wants to conquer the first planet with their few ships but gets soundly beaten by a few hundered hastily build starfighters and whatever the planet bought from all the weapon traders in the casino.

Or Episode 9 plays 20 years later with the stableboy becoming the protagonist and we basically have another remake from episode 4.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Goal: Rebuild the Resistance/Republic, beat back the First Order, restore peace and justice to the Old New Republic (tm).

How do you do it?

This could be a fun exercise. My first thought is that if you want me to predict what is going to happen in the next movie I just need to imagine where it LOOKS like it is going and just assume it'll do the opposite of that, given the history in this movie.

What it looks like it going to happen is that the movie picks up years later. During that time, Rey has been reading her stolen Jedi books and is now much more powerful in the Force and has found a small group of Jedi to train. She has built herself a lightsaber staff of some sort. The Resistance has been making guerrilla style hit and run attacks on the First Order, each attack they've made has grown their legend. They've convinced hundreds of new people to join their cause. They are just about ready to make a final strike against the First Order. They have to worry about Kylo Red, however, who has also grown in power. But Rey is ready to face him. They lure out Kylo's flagship into a trap and attack. While the ships are distracted, Rey sneaks aboard and takes care of Kylo while her apprentices deal with the Knights of Ren. They win the battle and the rest of the First Order retreats back into the Unknown Region with Snoke's OTHER apprentice so they can become the Second Order for episodes 10-12.

Since that's what I now expect to happen, I can assume that what will happen is instead that the movie picks back up 30 seconds after the last movie. Rey hasn't had time to read any books but she's suddenly become a lot more powerful in the Force anyways. Snoke stands up immediately and says "Very good apprentice, you killed me, just like I wanted you to. Now you have given yourself fully to the Dark Side." Kylo says "Well, if I can't kill you, I'm giving up on this Dark Side thing. I only wanted to be in charge. If you can't kill the past, then what's the point?" He then joins the Resistance who immediately attack the First Order and blow up their fleet using just the Millenium Falcon. Snoke then remotely grabs everyone inside the Falcon and slams them against the ceiling and floor repeatedly until they are jelly. End of Star Wars.

 

[billd91]

And, Luke...while I'm OK with it, I think it could have been a lot more heroic.

He bamboozled Kylo Ren and the attacking First Order force long thoroughly enough and long enough for the last remnants of the Resistance to get away so they could rebuild and fight another day. That's pretty effing heroic.