D&D 5E Running Tomb of Horrors. Advice?

[Guest 6801328]

Five high-school age players want me to run ToH for them (the new, Yawning Portal version. Kids these days.)

We're going to create one-off characters, using AL rules. I think I'll write a bunch of magic items on pieces of paper, then have everybody draw two from a hat, swapping with each other if they feel like it. Plus any normal equipment they want.

I know this has been asked (because I've Googled around) but does anybody with experience running/playing it have advice on levels?

 

[toucanbuzz]

9-11th levels.

Give them fair warning it's meant to be lethal. Not everyone is expected to survive.

I've run it in 1st edition format, 3rd edition, and Pathfinder. Personally, I prefer the 1st edition version (if you can find it). Why? Because Gary G. created it as a "thinking man's (or woman's) dungeon." Very little depended on your gear or stats; almost all traps and events were resolved without use of anything but wits (even finding traps was by exploration, not a die roll). It was meant to be lethal and surviving it has been considered a badge of honor. As a side note, I'd get the PDF of the AD&D version for the handout graphics. Huge enhancement.

Finally, because it's meant to be a puzzle-solving dungeon, many of the class features won't get used, so I wouldn't create overly complicated characters, and you might want a way to have a "backup" for each player.

 

[Guest 6801328]

9-11th levels.

Give them fair warning it's meant to be lethal. Not everyone is expected to survive.

I've run it in 1st edition format, 3rd edition, and Pathfinder. Personally, I prefer the 1st edition version (if you can find it). Why? Because Gary G. created it as a "thinking man's (or woman's) dungeon." Very little depended on your gear or stats; almost all traps and events were resolved without use of anything but wits (even finding traps was by exploration, not a die roll). It was meant to be lethal and surviving it has been considered a badge of honor. As a side note, I'd get the PDF of the AD&D version for the handout graphics. Huge enhancement.

Finally, because it's meant to be a puzzle-solving dungeon, many of the class features won't get used, so I wouldn't create overly complicated characters, and you might want a way to have a "backup" for each player.

The only one I'm familiar with (and it's been a....while) is the original. How do you think the new version compares? Reading through the text the traps seem less deadly, but you can't really compare oranges to oranges because 5e characters are more durable, too.

Unfortunately I no longer have my original T1, but I do have a PDF of it for the handouts.

 

[DRF]

I've read a lot about ToH because I have a strange infatuation with it even though I haven't run it yet. It does seem like the consensus is that the Yawning Portal version is very easily survivable and not nearly as deadly as the AD&D module. A common suggestion is pumping up the trap damage. Honestly, reading the old module, I have no idea how you're really supposed to run the new version, with modern skill checks etc. I'm still hopefully going to do it one day though, and I'd be sad if everyone survived with no issues.

On a related note, I'm currently running Yawning Portal's "Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan", and I'm seriously 95% sure the players will die. Deadly, good fun!

Definitely steal the art hand-outs from the original. I've done the same for Tamoachan, and it's totally awesome.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Luz]

I've run the 1e version and the 5e playtest version (it's very similar to the Yawning Portal version). Even though the YP version does not have the teeth of the original, it's still dangerous and runs pretty well. My biggest tip of advice would be not to allow any character to take the Dungeon Delver feat, it kinda defeats the whole purpose of the module.

 

[jasper]

Be mean. Some of the traps have specific trigger conditions. Like if pc touch the altar x,y,z happens. Change some of these to a failed perception roll. Limit teleportation out of the dungeon. Predraw out the maps in sections.

 

[JonnyP71]

The conversion to 5E is utterly toothless. Reasons?

1) Full recharge from long rest means that traps which wear you down are useless

2) Save or die poison replaced by save or damage, see point 1 above

3) Characters have bags more hitpoints in 5E than in 1E, and the damage from the traps has not been scaled up accordingly, see point 1 above

4) There are very few creatures in there and most would struggle to threaten a level 5 party - apart from the Demilich himself.

5).... but the 5E Demilich is a pale shadow of the 1E version

6) Passive Perception going *ping* when traps/secret doors are nearby. NO! Make the party get off their fat, lazy backsides and actually have to find them.


The original is a classic, a rite of passage. Most people who claim to have beaten it either:
a) are lying
b) cheated and read it beforehand
c) copied Rob Kuntz

The module is *supposed* to kill the characters in the most horrible and unfair ways. It is supposed to be the most lethal test of PLAYER skill ever published. The original is, quite rightly, a classic. My groups still talk fondly about it years after having suffered TPKs in it. Both the 4E and 5E conversions I've read don't even come close.

 

[toucanbuzz]

The only one I'm familiar with (and it's been a....while) is the original. How do you think the new version compares?

I prefer 1st edition style and have skimmed but not run the 5E version, IMO, the more monsters you add, the more rolls & skill checks you add instead of Q&A exploration, the more you dumb down the lethal nature of the traps (effectively make the wrong decision and die), the less it's Tomb of Horrors and simply another dungeon crawl.

The original module was a badge of honor if completed. Entire groups were supposed to fail, and almost never would you have an entire party survive beginning to end. Find ways to make it easier, more survivable, and its repackaged crap relying on the original name to sell the product.

9th level accomplishes two needs of the adventure: (1) decent saves to have a fair chance and (2) decent hit points to have a fair chance. The original module was levels 10-14. Otherwise, levels weren't so important because [sblock] there were only 3 fights, one of which was a fairly easy gargoyle, one a pushover fake guardian, and the last which could only be hurt by a list of specific effects, none of which a party these levels would probably have on hand and instead had to be garnered from the demilich's hoard. Plus, the tomb thwarted most magical efforts used to bypass its walls. [/sblock]

It is very possible to run this in its original form with minimal modification to treasure. [sblock] I'd also keep the demilich as originally written. In the original, it's really more of a trap or puzzle than a monster. The original needed a clue, however, about gems being able to hurt it since likely the party won't have anything as-written to damage it. [/sblock]

 

[TerraDave]

I actually ran a 4E version of it...but even in that nerfed edition it was good.

A few things:

Most important: still challenge the players. Various checks can give a little bit of info, and you can still ask for checks (so they can fail them) but they really have to say what they are doing, and a check should never beat anything.

Limit resting: The original did not bother with wandering monsters, and I don't remember if anything explicitly reset. The original module did allow for demon summoning if certain spells where cast--hence the image on the cover of early editions--and inspired by that I had demons or devils appear with long breaks. You could also link this to various spells. You could also impose other penalties for lingering, including resetting or environmental affects.

Specifically review the demi-lich: Its probably Ok if every trap is not supper deadly. As long you limit resting. But the last encounter should be a big deal. A think the 4E version I used had a souped up version of the original, which teleported the battle across the tomb, and I would think about ways to make things strange and surprising when it stirs to life.