Wow, I'm falling behind on this thread....
... or explain how you find time to construct wizard's towers et al, when your employer dies in 77 days, as is the main plot of the latest hardcover.
In either case, your stance is indefensible.
My first answer is: "You don't." You focus on finishing the adventure, and then for levels 11 to 20 you can take your time and figure out how to spend your gold.
My real answer is: if you need to fall back on the plot of just
one of the published adventures to defend your position, you may want to re-think your argument.
Because I specifically asked about uptime only, since that is what my and others' beef is about. So I don't feel you answered my question.
But that's a totally artificial constraint. Downtime exists. If you don't use it in your game that's not really a valid basis for complaining about other rules. It reminds me of the Warlord debate:
"Warlords need to heal because all other healing is magical."
"But...but...it's a game about worlds that have magic."
"Yeah but we don't use magic in our game."
"..."
The first time you find a sword +1, it's a cool find. After years of play and several characters/campaigns, it just doesn't have that wow factor. It's still a desirable item, because of its obvious utility, but it's not going to impress them.
If you want the sword +1 to retain it's "wow", you probably need to play with new players. That's the only way to keep having that first time.
That it is useful is not in doubt, just like the usefulness of the sword +1 is not in doubt.
But if you're expecting players with years of experience to get excited because they've found a sword +1, you're probably going to be disappointed.
I'm confused how the discussion shifted from magic shops (or at least non-random availability of magic items to buy, at prices that 'make sense' according to an imagined market....which itself is totally subjective) to "magic items should feel special". Why is it WotC's job to make magic items feel special? Is it WotC's job to make every Orc unique and memorable? If you, as a DM or player, cannot make up some fluff to make a +1 sword feel unique, I think you are playing the wrong game.
Furthermore, an example of how "broken" rarity pricing is is that a Vicious Weapon is more rare than the mathematically superior +1 Sword. Well...isn't that exactly what you are asking for? The Vicious Weapon is more "special" in the way you are describing, thus it costs more. WTF are you actually asking for?
Or do you expect them to be surprised when they discover that trolls regenerate but not fire damage!!! ?
(Ironically, I believe @
Maxperson does in fact expect them to be surprised, based on opinions he has expressed in threads about metagaming.)
Thank you for asking.
I use Sane for reference, mainly as a shorthand for having a think about a certain item myself. In short, if an item is priced by Sane at 25,000 gp that tells me "probably not appropriate for my players until tier III".
Very much unlike WotC's rarity system, Sane represents somebody actually thinking about how an item influences and changes gameplay. They even have a small list of completely gamewrecking items that they refuse to price! This is very useful to a hard-working DM.
Problem is; it's all far too direct a d20 conversion to be truly useful.
(etc.)
I just want to point out that you keep citing support for buying weapons in previous editions as evidence that WotC is obligated (because of their "promise" to support all playing styles) to continue doing so. But you also claim that previous attempts were poorly done and illogical.
Since the current version is
also poorly done and illogical (by your assessment) haven't they met their obligation to provide you the same experience you are used to?
Finding loot has always been a part of D&D. The DMG has tables upon tables for distributing treasure. You get more and more as levels increase.
Why? If there's nothing to spend it on? If you're supposed to spend it only on downtime, why is this part so vaguely supported?
I have to say, of all the arguments for magic shops, this one you keep harping on ("they give you money, so they should be giving you something to spend it on, and I'm going to keep narrowing the parameters until nothing qualifies except magic items") is the least persuasive. So unpersuasive, in fact, that although I started off the thread opposed to magic shops I actually find myself
more opposed 26 pages later.