D&D 5E The "Stop Trying to Impose Your Playstyle" Argument

[Guest 6801328]

Dear gamers,

This is a request that we stop using the argument, "If you are against including X as an option then you are selfishly trying to prevent others from playing the game with their chosen playstyle."

It's a nonsense argument, partly because it is equally (if poorly) applicable both directions.

A) We are all free to house-rule and use 3rd party material or re-fluff to our heart's content. If I can do it, you can do it, and vice versa.
B) Except in Adventurer's League, where both sides of the debate are equally subject to the restrictions of AL. If I'm trying to deny you your play style, you are equally trying to impose it on me.

"Optional" sounds so innocuous, but Feats are "optional" and if you hate Feats (I don't, I love them) and if you play in AL you are going to be sitting next to people who use them. Sure, you don't have to use them yourself, but you're going to be in a game with them.

Which brings up a corollary to this argument: "You don't have to use the options." First, that's not true in all cases. There are options that the DM chooses, not players. But even if we are talking character options, opposition is almost always going to be based on the impact on the game, either aesthetically or mechancially, not on one's own character. Take the Feat argument: yes, I don't have to build and play a crossbow expert, but that doesn't really make me any less annoyed with the guy who runs up and gets the point blank -5/+10 shot over and over and over again.

Next argument: "Then don't play AL; find an independent campaign." Not everybody has that option, and even those who do rarely have multiple options. So what if your only available table uses Option X?

It may be my DM is my best friend and loves option X, and if it becomes an official option he's going to use it in our game. And I really don't want that. (And given in that case if what I'm doing is preventing somebody from using their preferred playstyle I'm apparently willing to do it to my best friend. So I'm not likely to be persuaded by that argument from some stranger on the Internet.)

Beyond the Adventurer's League argument, there are several other perfectly valid reasons why somebody may oppose new options:
1) It takes up page count. (Which is a problem both in the $/page ratio, and bloat in general.)
2) It takes up WotC development time.
3) Most significantly, it begins to normalize the option. We may start to see NPCs or plot elements or magic items designed around existence of the option, and what is optional/normal now may be core in future editions.

Would it be exceptionally generous of you to be willing to lessen your own experience in order to increase the enjoyment of some stranger on the internet (some stranger who probably intentionally misconstrued your arguments, cast aspersions on your abilities as a DM and roleplayer, and is just generally patronizing and pedantic)? Sure. That would make you a saint. But the decision not to do so does not make you selfish.

Finally, we are not designing D&D here, or deciding what becomes official. We are debating pros and cons of design ideas. The argument to not deny other people their playstyle is really equivalent to "either agree that this should be an option, or shut up and get out of this thread." That's not ok.

It's a stupid argument. Let's just drop it. In all situations. Please.

 

[Sunseeker]

I get where this is coming from, but you realize the people you're talking about have been doing this for years, never changed, and the moderation will do nothing about them?

 

[ccs]

I dislike Drow (and generally other monsters) as PC options.
I dislike psionics.

To the best of my abilities I WILL try & deny others these things.
My best consists of:
1) not allowing these options when I DM. There's games out there for those of you who want to play this stuff, just not run by me....
2) as a player, politely letting the group & DM know my preferences for what to include/not include in a game. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.
3) giving WoTC feedback on thier surveys etc that this is not what I want them to work on, not what I want to spend my $ on.
4) Voting with my wallet. Eventually WoTC will publish a psionics book. I won't be buying it.
True, they won't notice the lack of my $50 because thier math will have indicated that there IS a large enough market for such a book. But who knows? Maybe if between now & then I can convince enough others to join my anti-psionics stance I cam affect that math.....

Hopefully I succeed in thwarting any of you Drow/monster psionics fans.

 

[Jester David]

Really, the Adventurer's League is a big exception, but it's also such a small, small minority of players it's probably not working bringing up when discussing the rules, play style, or book releases.
Just a thought...

 

[BigBadDM]

It sounds like you want an opinion-less world or don't care for autonomy? Actually, I don't get this post.
People play how they want to play, or don't play how they want to play. Listen to people, don't listen to people. Interact with the people you want or don't.
It's life.

Please people, if you want to complain about (as the original poster) "If you are against including X as an option then you are selfishly trying to prevent others from playing the game with their chosen playstyle" --go ahead. By all means, there are usually little nuggets of insight in everything someone says.

 

[Satyrn]

I get where this is coming from, but you realize the people you're talking about have been doing this for years, never changed, and the moderation will do nothing about them?

Well, unless there's a rule that says "Thou shalt not post a thought deemed unworthy by the Almighty Elfcrusher," I don't see why moderation would be needed.

 

[generic]

I dislike Drow (and generally other monsters) as PC options.
I dislike psionics.

To the best of my abilities I WILL try & deny others these things.
My best consists of:
1) not allowing these options when I DM. There's games out there for those of you who want to play this stuff, just not run by me....
2) as a player, politely letting the group & DM know my preferences for what to include/not include in a game. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.
3) giving WoTC feedback on thier surveys etc that this is not what I want them to work on, not what I want to spend my $ on.
4) Voting with my wallet. Eventually WoTC will publish a psionics book. I won't be buying it.
True, they won't notice the lack of my $50 because thier math will have indicated that there IS a large enough market for such a book. But who knows? Maybe if between now & then I can convince enough others to join my anti-psionics stance I cam affect that math.....

Hopefully I succeed in thwarting any of you Drow/monster psionics fans.

No foul being, my mind magics will melt your brain!

 

[GameOgre]

If you are going to post on message boards get a thick skin pronto. There are wall to wall Trolls and it's so bad even the fellow Dwarves trying to mine some goodness from the threads with you are often trollish in speech and mannerisms from having to deal with the trolls!

So no. Posts like this will gain you nothing but maybe a brief nod from a fellow dwarf as he heads back into he tunnels looking for a gold nugget.

What I will do is give you some magical armor and a +1 shield to help you out if you can figure out how to put them on.

1-It doesn't matter if a troll disagrees with you. Is rude to you, Tries to make you look stupid and tells you you are wrong. That's what trolls do! So anyone being obviously argumentative and condescending .......just ignore them! They can't hurt you! Don't let that crap get you angry! That's WHY the troll typed it! Just ignore the troll stink and move on. Doing anything else falls into the Troll attack and you are done for.

2- If a Dwarf tries to engage with you even if it's to give his opinion that you are wrong..........listen/read what he says and think about it. Don't just assume you being wrong= Troll. Plenty of times we are all wrong maybe it's you thins time or maybe you can shine some light for this fellow dwarf. It's not often easy to tell! Take what he says in the BEST POSSIBLE way. I mean it. Don't ignore that. Take it in the best possible way you can.

3- You can't kill a troll. No fire. NEVER EVER will you hear a troll say "Your right man" they just keep coming back fresh as new all regenerated so learn when to walk away from a thread once you have gotten all the gold from it you are going to get. This is important and will waste much of your time if you can't figure this out. Learn when the dwarves have all gone home and the trolls are just wacking away at each other and anyone else who walks by.

4- The only people who ever say"You are right and I was wrong" are Dwarves. Trolls can't even understand that concept. So when you are wrong.....admit it. It's ok man....we are ALL WRONG from time to time. It's one of the few 100% sure ways to tell a Dwarf from a troll. Use it when you are wrong and be stronger for it.

 

[Sunseeker]

Well, unless there's a rule that says "Thou shalt not post a thought deemed unworthy by the Almighty Elfcrusher," I don't see why moderation would be needed.

The larger point is that there are some folks on here who quite strongly promote their ideas as "the only way to game" and it is impossible to have a conversation with them when it comes to opinions of game design and gameplay. Moderation is needed because their posts often become insulting, derogatory and generally disparaging towards people and ideas that don't align with whatever their opinion on "a good game" should be. It's not in any particular rule violation, so yes I understand if you're one of those sort of folks who likes to toe the line, not breaking the rules but walking right up to them and leaning over the line a little bit should not be punished, but it creates for a bad environment when the only card to play is brinkmanship.

 

[Guest 6801328]

In all honestly I'm not actually expecting to persuade any of the people/trolls who use this argument. I'm more trying to draw attention to it so that those who do are called out for it more often.

And it's not that I take offense; it's just disappointing when an interesting and though-provoking discussion is undercut by "Well, if you want to selfishly impose your playstyle I guess I can't stop you." Oh please.