Guidance Cleric cantrip is really dumb

[Mistwell]

Lilacs break my immersion.

How do you feel about collar stays, cufflinks, collar tips, lapel pins and tie bars?

 

[iserith]

How do you feel about collar stays, cufflinks, collar tips, lapel pins and tie bars?

Those are metagaming.

 

[Satyrn]

Lilacs break my immersion.

The larch breaks mine.




The larch.

 

[Tony Vargas]

making it an aura that is perpetually on does not resolve the OPs concern.

YES. IT. DOES.

My sincerest apologies for the lack of presence in this thread, my internet went down. I just got it back

Just in time.

 

[jgsugden]

I have an article in mind that addresses these concepts... I should finish writing it up and put it on the DM's guild.

 

[Mistwell]

You contradict yourself.



From the dictionary:
spam
spam/
verb
gerund or present participle: spamming
send the same message indiscriminately to (a large number of Internet users).

An aura is spamming. It indiscriminately sends the benefit to all players at once.

Sorry I had not seen this reply earlier.

It's not the spamming the OP is talking about. Whether or not you want to call it a form of spamming, this isn't the one we're discussing. Move on from it. If you have an issue with this sort of spamming fair enough, but it's not the type the OP mentioned.

The OP had 3 issues

1. Vocal spamming (which you address)


2. Cleric involvement in all checks at all times by spamming into every check even unimportant ones.




To which your reply with:


But that is not true, Wait the cleric is not here we need him to come over her so we can get guidance since he was standing by the rogue 60ft away

Oh come on.

You're out of combat. There is no purpose to the issue you raised. If the Cleric can easily come within 30', then you just assume the come within 30' without the need to role play it. This is one of those issues someone raises in a white room hypothetical which has no purpose in practice. If you need to use for example a rope to tie to something, you don't need to say I detach the rope from my backpack...you just say you use the rope. If you're rolling a d4 added to your skill check, you just use the d4 and it's assumed it's because the cleric is in 30'. As long as you're not in initiative there is no risk to the issue and therefore no reason to worry over it.

The aura amounts to still waiting for the Cleric spam for every action.

There are no turns. Nobody is waiting anything. You're out of initiative. You just roll the d4 and add it to your check and any competent DM will have no issue with it and nobody will need say a word to break immersion. This is a manufactured "issue".

3. Escalating DC due to spamming on every test

This is not the issue the OP was raised. He said he'd seen others propose it but he had no issues with the mechanics of Guidance. You think he is making an issue of it, but he's not. He doesn't care. Nor should he - the help action does even more than guidance for those sorts of issues.

So this is again not about the technical aspect of spell but the over use of it due to spamming EVERY LITTLE TEST, there is no such thing as trivial any more.

Nope. Stop. This is not the OPs claim, it's yours. He doesn't care about the mechanical issues and "every check is non-trivial" is a mechanics response.

Like I said earlier, YOU are stuck on the mechanical parts of it. I don't know why. If I "spammed" the help action on every little skill check, what would you do?

I would also say you introduce a 4th issue with an Aura. Guidance is concentration to prevent it from affecting multiple tests at once as a CANTRIP.

Non-issue. It's only for out-of-combat and out-of-initiative. I addressed this when I raised the proposal to begin with. There are no timing issues if you're not in initiative. Nor does it stack with Bless because, of course it still does have the same limit in the spell of concentration. Nobody said anything about it not being an actual spell in-game being used, it's just the immersion issues are dealt with if you treat it AS IF it were an aura that was always on in appropriate circumstances.

 

[ClaytonCross]

You are mistaken about the ops problem with guidance. His issue never was the 1d4 bonus. It could theoretically be on every check the pcs ever made and it still wouldn't be the problem he's talking about.

His problem is literally the immersion/feel of the game when the cleric player constantly says incast guidance at every possible skill check.

So you are wrong

I literally Quoted the OP saying " annoying pocket cleric who is always involved in everything " ... Its not the 1d4 that is the issue its the Cleric making every trivial test his test too. The OP explained that. Spam is an issue per the OPs post. If you choose to ignore the OPs post but what you want, why do you bother to post on it? He has more than one problem here.

 

[ClaytonCross]

As a DM I love the guidance cantrip precisely because it enhances immersion. Our house rule is that the cleric must actually recite a shirt prayer. Eg "Dear Pelor, please keep us safe tonight by helping us find a safe place to rest. We promise to do our best to zealously attack evil in the morning."

That's actually a good way to help the OPs issue since the player will get tired of saying prayers during a session if he is casting guidance on every 5 ft. The player will likely reduce casting it to more important checks. Better solution than I came up with and better than the counter productive aura.

I am really impressed at that solution.

 

[FrogReaver]

That's actually a good way to help the OPs issue since the player will get tired of saying prayers during a session if he is casting guidance on every 5 ft. The player will likely reduce casting it to more important checks. Better solution than I came up with and better than the counter productive aura.

I am really impressed at that solution.

Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable

 

[ClaytonCross]

Yes, it does.

You've been presented, in rather extensive detail and with repetition at this point, why it does. You've never responded to it, and you just keep repeating that it doesn't solve the problem.


YES. IT. DOES.

If you disagree, then respond to the actual points made. The OP had immersion issues with the spell, not balance issues. How does that proposal not address the immersion issues he had?

I think you are still caught up on balance issues. I don't know why. The OP has no balance issues with the spell. Nor should he - the help action is even more powerful and literally any PC can do it at-will.

OP "annoying pocket cleric who is always involved in everything" <-- this is one of 3 issues I out lined and explained from the OPs post. Its not about the 1d4 its about waiting for the Cleric to be involved in every test spamming it for minor issues. I don't know how many times I have to answer this before you read it. Oddly, I keep answering your questions but your saying I am not though its in almost every post. So your ether not reading my posts or your mentally blocking what you don't want to talk about. Its a quote from the OP so you can't say he didn't say it. Its 1 of 3 points he makes about breaking emersion. The aura resolved 1 of the OPs 3 issues to make the other two worse. Its robbing Peter to Pay Paul and end in a negative gain due to interest.