[PF2] Gnome and Halfling ancestry up on Paizo blog

[Charlaquin]

Interestingly I would have given Lidda as an example of Halflings done correctly. Well except for that nose thing of course.

But you can’t even tell she’s a halfling most of the time. I agree that the Jose was weird though.

 

[Shasarak]

But you can’t even tell she’s a halfling most of the time. I agree that the Jose was weird though.

In the Lord of the Rings movies they did not need to have Frodo with a big head to show he was a Hobbit. Most of the time when you are looking at the Hobbit village you can not even tell they are Hobbits because it is built proportionally. Only when Gandalf is in his house can you notice it is a different scale.

So why do we need Halflings with monstrously big heads just to show that they are Halflings/ I would vastly prefer your Hobbit foot idea.

 

[Charlaquin]

In the Lord of the Rings movies they did not need to have Frodo with a big head to show he was a Hobbit. Most of the time when you are looking at the Hobbit village you can not even tell they are Hobbits because it is built proportionally. Only when Gandalf is in his house can you notice it is a different scale.

So why do we need Halflings with monstrously big heads just to show that they are Halflings/ I would vastly prefer your Hobbit foot idea.

I don’t think we need big heads necessarily, we just need something to make them visually distinctive. Proportions are an easy way to do that, whether it be heads, feet, limb length, torso width, whatever. Or it doesn’t have to be proportions, but it should be some physical attribute.

 

[Shasarak]

I don’t think we need big heads necessarily, we just need something to make them visually distinctive. Proportions are an easy way to do that, whether it be heads, feet, limb length, torso width, whatever. Or it doesn’t have to be proportions, but it should be some physical attribute.

It lloks like they are differentiating Gnomes with those funny Gnome hats, so they could use something else.

In Dragonlance they used to use Top-knots and Hoopaks for the Kender.

 

[Shasarak]

Now as for the bonus stats, i am not sure about giving Goblins, Gnomes and Halflings all bonuses to Cha.

My preference would be Gnomes +Int, Halflings +Wis and Goblins +Con.

 

[Charlaquin]

It lloks like they are differentiating Gnomes with those funny Gnome hats, so they could use something else.

In Dragonlance they used to use Top-knots and Hoopaks for the Kender.

Eh, I’m not a fan of fashion being the visual identifier, because characters can always change clothes or do their hair differently. Golarion gnomes’ long eyebrows work. 4e gnomes’ gold skin, colorful, pupil-less, scalers-less eyes, and distinctive hairlines worked. Weird hats and topknots not so much.

Now as for the bonus stats, i am not sure about giving Goblins, Gnomes and Halflings all bonuses to Cha.


My preference would be Gnomes +Int, Halflings +Wis and Goblins +Con.

Yeah, I think everyone finds that weird. I’d go gnomes + Int, Halflings + Cha, and goblins +Wis.

 

[Shasarak]

Eh, I’m not a fan of fashion being the visual identifier, because characters can always change clothes or do their hair differently. Golarion gnomes’ long eyebrows work. 4e gnomes’ gold skin, colorful, pupil-less, scalers-less eyes, and distinctive hairlines worked. Weird hats and topknots not so much.

Kender are pretty iconic just from their looks:



Not just from comparing them to humans

 

[Charlaquin]

Sure, but what distinguishes that guy from an elf?

 

[Sunseeker]

Interesting. I felt that 4e halflings and gnomes had very distinct visual identities - you could always tell one from a human or an elf at a glance, with or without a size reference. Though I suppose it could be a little trickier to tell with Halflings, and in both cases proportions were not the indicator. So I’ll revise my statement: Halflings and Gnomes need to be easily discernible from humans and elves with or without a size reference. Proportions are one way to achieve this, but not the only way.

Aside from the bit of square forehead, I was mostly referring to them being build like normal humans, just smaller. As opposed to the 5E halflings which seem to have a physical build closer to that of a person with dwarfism.
Examples:

Gnomes aren't really that bad. 4E definitely had a more "natural human" design to them, but Gnomes are proportionate, if short in 5E, they don't suffer from overly-large heads or shrimpy limbs.

That’s understandable. Personally this doesn’t bug me. It’s just not a place where my suspension of disbelief is strained, unless the proportions are real messed up like in 5e. But big heads aren’t generally a problem for me.. But everyone has different thresholds for such things, and I can see why this would bother some folks.

I think in PF it always bugged me a little. 5E made it bad enough that I don't consider 5E's depiction canon in games I run with halflings (substituting visuals from LOTR, humans, but smaller). So with 5E bringing it to a head for me, now I take more open issue with it elsewhere. C'est la vie.

Peraonally, I’m partial to halflings having big hairy feet and no shoes. I remember thinking it was cool how Khajit and Argonians couldn’t equip footwear in Morrowind, and I always thought that would be a neat feature to give Halflings use in a D&D or Tolkien-esque game that had a sectional armor system.

Now that I agree with. I wish they had kept the digitigrade legs for Khajit and Argonians. I tend to apply it to beast races in D&D games, Dragonborn have this problem for example.

But I think 5E did a good job of differentiating the humanoids by a cultural appearance (clothing, hairstyles, equipment) which 4E did not. You can tell a 5E gnome or halfling from a human or elf not because of the size of their head, but because of their clothing and hairstyles. I agree Lidda had the problem of looking just like a "little human" so without reference it was difficult to ID her as a halfling.

EDIT: since I see someone else brought up that point with you, I want to add this is good for a solid visual identity in the art. It's less applicable to play.

 

[Ancalagon]

That 5e hafling picture is a ... disaster. I'm sorry, I'm sure the artist has done some great images, but this one is just is horrid.

I would look at the one in the backgrounds section instead, or maybe the one in the skill check section (where she's pick-pocketing someone leaning over her)

What did folks think about the partial reveal of the ability score generation system?