DM advice: How do you NOT kill your party?

[Dausuul]

One way is to hammer the party's weaknesses early on, with limited-use BBeG abilities, creating the proper terror, then, as the party recovers, give them the chance to shift the battle to favor their strengths, instead...

This is a very good point. If you front-load your monsters with single-use, "shock and awe" abilities, you can terrify the players and make them fear for their PCs' lives even though the monster has, in reality, shot its wad. This has the added benefit of not requiring you to fudge anything at all.

A good example of this was an encounter I ran between an 11th-level party and a lich. The player of the cleric wasn't there that night (another player was running his PC), so I had the lich target the cleric with power word kill on the first round. The lich said "Die," and the cleric fell over dead without a saving throw.

The lich only had the one 9th-level spell slot, and its other spell options weren't nearly so deadly, plus the PCs had defenses against a couple of the big ones. The party wasn't in all that much danger after the first spell. But boy, you sure wouldn't have known it from their reactions.

 

[iserith]

If the party needs to overcome that enemy and the DM enables the acquisition of resources capable of overcoming that power then sure. Plus the DM foreshadows and allows the party have a reasonable chance of knowing that it’s possible (bearing in mind DMs often overstate player knowledge because they forget that while they see the whole picture the players only see the sum of the parts they’ve discovered). Plus the DM gives the party opportunity to react appropriately and in a timely manner rather than springing the boss on them and getting lucky with initiative.

Then yeah, the encouncter could be fun.

However that certainly didn’t happen in that case.

To be fair to the DM I’ve been back and read the AP it was in and the above wasn’t feasible without the DM changing the published adventure. Morale of the story...change the published adventure... or just don’t use the spell.

Then I would say the issue wasn't the DM's choice of spell or not fudging or not building a "balanced encounter," but rather his or her failure to telegraph the spell's use as a possibility in the challenge. If the players know what's coming and they choose to face it, then the DM isn't to blame when the very thing they were warned about comes to pass. It's when it's a "gotcha" that a player might be rightly dissatisfied. That's what I take away from your example.

Blame could sometimes be laid before the players in some instances as well, for failing to sufficiently assess the threats they plan to face when they have the chance to do so. If you know you're going to face a "mid-level boss," it might be nice to know what it can do beforehand, right? That seems like smart play to me, to the extent it's possible.

 

[TheSword]

A good example of this was an encounter I ran between an 11th-level party and a lich. The player of the cleric wasn't there that night (another player was running his PC), so I had the lich target the cleric with power word kill on the first round. The lich said "Die," and the cleric fell over dead without a saving throw.

I’m just looking on in horror. Killing a character in absentia is the gravest sin a DM can commit... it’s like doing something to someone when they’re asleep.

Was the Cleric player okay coming to the next session to find out their character had died or did you have a back player/NPC to res them?

 

[ccs]

They are a story teller and when that story ends at level 1 with a TPK (that isn’t the result of mass stupidity) then I really do think they have failed to find the right balance. Creating new characters takes effort, creativity and a fair amount of time to do it properly. When players put that effort in they have a reasonable expectation to get a chance to use that PC.

So when you all die because I simply rolled high I'm doing it wrong?

There is nothing wrong with the odd unwinnable challenge but throwing liches at players because they took the wrong path smacks of bad design to me.

I can throw lich at you at 1st lv. Or a dragon, or a _____....
Odds are I've got something other combat in mind. But hey, if you insist on fighting it we'll roll the dice. (unless you just want me to narrate your death)
Who knows, maybe the dice will decide that the story will be about a bunch of fools who somehow beat a _____ at 1st lv....

 

[TheSword]

Then I would say the issue wasn't the DM's choice of spell or not fudging or not building a "balanced encounter," but rather his or her failure to telegraph the spell's use as a possibility in the challenge. If the players know what's coming and they choose to face it, then the DM isn't to blame when the very thing they were warned about comes to pass. It's when it's a "gotcha" that a player might be rightly dissatisfied. That's what I take away from your example.

Blame could sometimes be laid before the players in some instances as well, for failing to sufficiently assess the threats they plan to face when they have the chance to do so. If you know you're going to face a "mid-level boss," it might be nice to know what it can do beforehand, right? That seems like smart play to me, to the extent it's possible.

I agree that it could work but it requires that level of telegraphing and also the appropriate solutions being available.

However avoiding a fight is not very satisfying a result for a NPC that needs to be overcome to progress. Not all adventures are sandboxes and have the option of bypassing and/or retreating to level up elsewhere/buy supplies to deal with the problem (a very Pathfinder solution). I really don’t understand the concept when unachievable key goals are set for the party (or key goals where success is unlikely even). Too much like being set up to fail for my liking.

I think one-shot kills, mass damage spells and the like should be handled with care. In this case the NPC was four levels higher than the party. The DM could have reduced caster level, used an alternative spell, or offered a means of protection. None of these involve fudging dice rolls, but do require the DM to consider party capability.

 

[Dausuul]

I’m just looking on in horror. Killing a character in absentia is the gravest sin a DM can commit... it’s like doing something to someone when they’re asleep.

Was the Cleric player okay coming to the next session to find out their character had died or did you have a back player/NPC to res them?

Before the fight, I went out of my way to ensure they had a single-shot revivify item available. (If the target had been anyone but the cleric, I probably wouldn't have bothered. As long as the cleric survives, death is a speed bump for a party at that level.)

 

[ccs]

I’m just looking on in horror. Killing a character in absentia is the gravest sin a DM can commit...

No it's not.

it’s like doing something to someone when they’re asleep.

And no it's not. Not at all.

 

[TheSword]

I hoped so

One area I find very conflicted is how to make death meaningful in a campaign with access to resurrection magic.

My preference is for death to be rare, but resurrection rarer. We have a general compact that resurrection magic fails in all but the rarest circumstances - because if a PC died a hero fighting evil and goes to the equivalent of Valhalla/Ellysium/the Seventh Heaven, why on earth would they answer the call.

 

[TheSword]

So when you all die because I simply rolled high I'm doing it wrong?





I can throw lich at you at 1st lv. Or a dragon, or a _____....
Odds are I've got something other combat in mind. But hey, if you insist on fighting it we'll roll the dice. (unless you just want me to narrate your death)
Who knows, maybe the dice will decide that the story will be about a bunch of fools who somehow beat a _____ at 1st lv....

I did say excepting mass stupidity.

 

[Slit518]

If you are planning a major combat, (such as a boss fight) one that has potential to be extremely lethal, what steps do you follow to keep the party alive?
What tactics do you use to prevent a party wipe without the party knowing you helped them out a little.

There are a few ways you can do this. Attack a character and once they go down, leave that player alone. Perhaps have the attacker lock onto another character that isn't there to aid the unconscious one.

However, if a character is doing something stupid, or drawing a lot of attention by appearing really dangerous (doing a lot of damage to 1 or a set of enemies, about to do something to hurt a lot of enemies, etc...), you may want to attack them recklessly anyway.

The second way you can do this is to keep a tally of all your player's HP. Let a few fall, and have the monster's HP based on the drama and not actual numbers. Perhaps the monster or creatures or whatever you're fighting will fall easier once a certain drama point is reached. Though this is easier to achieve with 1 big monster as opposed to several creatures of an encounter.

Plot could also draw an encounter away. Humanoid characters? Perhaps a higher up tells them to abandon what they're doing and to leave and go work toward the greater plan. A pack of wolves? Perhaps something scares them off, like a nearby fire, or a meteorite, or war horns, or something. A giant about to strike the last person down? Perhaps a lightning bolt strikes it, or perhaps it dies of a heart attack.

The last way I can think of is to have the encounter creatures capture the player characters. If it's wolves perhaps they stabilize the character's wounds by licking them to death and drag them back to the den for a later meal. If it's humanoids, well that is pretty easy. They get patched up and imprisoned.