D&D 4E Lazy General... aka Warlord in Anime

[AbdulAlhazred]

Mulan probably doesnt really count as anime ... but She and Shan Yu definitely count as Warlords.

One observation I would make is that the warlord archetype is very strong in Chinese fantasy. There are dozens of historical drama series (which are all varying grades of fantasy ranging from 'somewhat fictionalized with minimal fantastic elements' all the way up to 'completely fantastical'). In fact Game of Thrones could almost be viewed as a western adaptation of this genre (albeit its origins don't seem to be much influenced by eastern fantasy). The typical plots involve things like the one I watched a couple years ago where the son of a prince who was supposedly wiped out with his family by the emperor comes back in disguise and becomes the mastermind 'advisor' to all of the emperor's sons, cleverly causing them all to wipe each other, and the emperor, out before he installs the virtuous son as the new emperor. This guy actually rarely fights (he's pretty tough) instead being known as a supergenius strategist and tactician. This is a pretty typical one, but they all seem to have some 'warlord' type character as a major element, usually the hero.

 

[Garthanos]

In fact Game of Thrones could almost be viewed as a western adaptation of this genre (albeit its origins don't seem to be much influenced by eastern fantasy). The typical plots involve things like the one I watched a couple years ago where the son of a prince who was supposedly wiped out with his family by the emperor comes back in disguise and becomes the mastermind 'advisor' to all of the emperor's sons, cleverly causing them all to wipe each other, and the emperor, out before he installs the virtuous son as the new emperor. This guy actually rarely fights (he's pretty tough) instead being known as a supergenius strategist and tactician. This is a pretty typical one, but they all seem to have some 'warlord' type character as a major element, usually the hero.

Game of Thrones - is way out of Anime of course still good examples you cheater.

Unless I am wrong we could probably call the following something very close to Tactical Lazylord, Inspiring Lazylord, Bravura - Tyrion Lannister, Lady Stark and Khal Drogo

 

[Zeromaru X]

Most of the Ship commanders in mecha anime are akin to lazilords as well. Bright Noa from Gundam or Daitetsu Minase from Super Robot Wars are good examples.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'll have to take your word for it...

However, I would say that this is typical, Japanese culture seems to have a tendency to focus on persons of importance much like Chinese does (I know, generalizations that will outrage 52 people on EnWorld, or 146 on rpg.net).

 

[Garthanos]

grabs european fairy tales ... prince, princess, princess, secretly a princess, secretly a king, noble woman not treated that way.... ok sure. Switches to ancient greek myth secretly of magic god blood. Middle eastern magical birth heralded...hmmm nope nothing new here.

Looks through the 2e players handbook for names of sample characters to inspire you raises an eyebrow at Abdul. That farmer background is pretty rare in there.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

grabs european fairy tales ... prince, princess, princess, secretly a princess, secretly a king, noble woman not treated that way.... ok sure. Switches to ancient greek myth secretly of magic god blood. Middle eastern magical birth heralded...hmmm nope nothing new here.

Looks through the 2e players handbook for names of sample characters to inspire you raises an eyebrow at Abdul. That farmer background is pretty rare in there.

Well, at least in European folklore, and fairy tales, there's a lot of 'just people' types. I mean MUCH of the "Grimm's Tales" stuff is like that. Those aren't exactly 'high fantasy' or 'mythic', but I think it is hard to find ANY Chinese stories of that ilk where the hero isn't some sort of supernatural being, royalty, etc. I'm sure there are some, its inevitable, but its hard to find. There's a VERY strong sense in Eastern Asian culture that people's significance is reflected in their outward station. Where that is modified to an extent would be priests most likely, but the ones in stories are always the super 'high level' type ones. Now and then someone will be a sort of "something in hiding" or "something in the rough", but only sidekicks are things like robbers or fairly mundane people. Its a hard distinction to make though because often western stories are so 'Disneyfied' that everyone has been turned into a prince and whatnot. The original Robin Hood for instance was just a guy, who robbed rich people. Maybe he was thought to be a disinherited Saxon or some such thing, but it was basically not a significant element of the original stories. Later he was embellished into a nobleman and whatnot. I doubt a Chinese equivalent would have needed the embellishment, it would have been assumed from day 1.

 

[Garthanos]

Well, at least in European folklore, and fairy tales, there's a lot of 'just people' types. I mean MUCH of the "Grimm's Tales" stuff is like that.

Wait you mean the stories told to admonish kids featured normal kids... getting eaten by witches not defeating them... I cannot imagine why

Those aren't exactly 'high fantasy' or 'mythic', but I think it is hard to find ANY Chinese stories of that ilk where the hero isn't some sort of supernatural being, royalty, etc. I'm sure there are some, its inevitable, but its hard to find.

Not exactly a culture I can claim a lot of breadth with actually. That is a very very very old culture.

Its a hard distinction to make though because often western stories are so 'Disneyfied' that everyone has been turned into a prince and whatnot.

I actually take that as "Telling", but I am a bit less than happy at the parallel with rich unqualified bastards getting elected but that is off topic so I am hushing that thought.

The original Robin Hood for instance was just a guy, who robbed rich people. Maybe he was thought to be a disinherited Saxon or some such thing, but it was basically not a significant element of the original stories. Later he was embellished into a nobleman and whatnot.

Not certain but I think it might have been historians who did that particular transformation but it also might have just been people who wanted to claim the character as a local figure.

The likely historic Arthur responsible for the legends wasn't a king but the fact that people felt the need to make him one is as I mentioned "Telling". And has nothing to do with Disney.

 

[Garthanos]

By the way the hero in my first mention in this thread was forced into nobility even though he hated it. Was forced to be a soldier and wanted to be a scientist.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Wait you mean the stories told to admonish kids featured normal kids... getting eaten by witches not defeating them... I cannot imagine why

Hehe, yeah. One of the reasons I would expect every society to have some.

Not exactly a culture I can claim a lot of breadth with actually. That is a very very very old culture.

There is a lot of continuity of culture, yes. There is more in Europe than a lot of people tend to think though as well, our stories often go back 1000's of years too! OTOH the Chinese are still venerating the mythical Xia dynasty which supposedly ruled in 2000 BC or so... We have Gilgamesh, but only because of modern archaeology...

I actually take that as "Telling", but I am a bit less than happy at the parallel with rich unqualified bastards getting elected but that is off topic so I am hushing that thought.

shhhhhhh!

Not certain but I think it might have been historians who did that particular transformation but it also might have just been people who wanted to claim the character as a local figure.

Not really sure either, but it is a pretty old story.

The likely historic Arthur responsible for the legends wasn't a king but the fact that people felt the need to make him one is as I mentioned "Telling". And has nothing to do with Disney.

I don't think Disney started that particular trend by any means. They have just been quite assiduous at making their characters 'royalty'. Its a sort of hyping up process. Its a tall tale to start with, so why not just make all the characters more fantastical by giving them royal titles and such? Its especially telling that they never have actually identifiable titles, they're just 'Prince' or something. EVERY actual Prince or Princess is surely associated with the THING they are the ruler of! So we can generally conclude that all such titles are made up, either at the time the story was created, or later on. As you note, Arturius becomes a king, Robbing Hoodlum becomes a knight, etc.

 

[Garthanos]

EVERY actual Prince or Princess is surely associated with the THING they are the ruler of! So we can generally conclude that all such titles are made up, either at the time the story was created, or later on. As you note, Arturius becomes a king, Robbing Hoodlum becomes a knight, etc.

The above EVERY and that Arthur was not referred to as king in the records about the battles in which he fought is why historians are certain he wasn't.

Perhaps interesting and related the myth of the Ninja is one of relatively humble birth but the likely historic case is for highly trained bushi from the ruling class if not high in the hierarchy acting under cover, intentionally not using family heirloom weapons and so on.