Preserving the Fear Inherent in 1st Level

[Reynard]

I started a new campaign last night, running the Yawning Portal version of Sunless Citadel in Eberron for a group consisting of a mix of lapsed and current players. The first thing that happened was a tense, close-to-TPK fight against 3 giant rats. It was scary, but fun scary. But having run quite a bit of 5E in the past, I know that particular feel goes away pretty quickly. It is pretty difficult to kill 5E with even a couple levels under their belt but I think the game benefits from a healthy dose of mortal fear.

What methods have you found to keep the game dangerous even as PCs rise in level? What methods have you tried that did not work out or otherwise ended up not using? What's your take on high lethality D&D as it relates to player engagement and enjoyment?

Thanks!

 

[Ath-kethin]

Honestly: the most effective tactics I've found is just to start the campaign at 1st level. People who play characters that were once incredibly vulnerable play very differently than those who never had to deal with that kind of weakness.

I'm sure you've seen the posts absout how a DM should start a game with the character's at 3rd level or higher because at lower levels the game is too "swingy" or whatever. I disagree completely, for exactly the reasons under discussion here. The lowest levels are the most characyer-definong part of the game. Skippping them and going straight to superhero mode devalues the play experience for everybody.

 

[iserith]

I just finished running Sunless Citadel a couple of weeks ago. Final death count was 6 PCs over the course of the adventure. Plus some NPC hirelings.

Once a character is out of apprentice tier, it's rare to see them go down. In my experience, they either have to be surprised or be going into a tough fight very low on resources, which is typically only possible if there's time pressure or incentives (or both).

Mortality is actually only one way to fail though and stakes can still be compelling even if death is not on the line. So if you can manage to set up goals the players and characters care about, then seriously threaten the achievement of those goals, it can be just as good as threatening the PCs' lives from a play experience standpoint. I also like including NPCs in the party that the players find useful or engaging and then threatening them constantly. It creates another resource sink and a sub-goal of keeping them alive and well while dealing with the threats.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[dave2008]

I started a new campaign last night, running the Yawning Portal version of Sunless Citadel in Eberron for a group consisting of a mix of lapsed and current players. The first thing that happened was a tense, close-to-TPK fight against 3 giant rats. It was scary, but fun scary. But having run quite a bit of 5E in the past, I know that particular feel goes away pretty quickly. It is pretty difficult to kill 5E with even a couple levels under their belt but I think the game benefits from a healthy dose of mortal fear.

What methods have you found to keep the game dangerous even as PCs rise in level? What methods have you tried that did not work out or otherwise ended up not using? What's your take on high lethality D&D as it relates to player engagement and enjoyment?

Thanks!

Monster attack damage does not match PC HP inflation. Add that to the additional methods PCs have to recover /avoid damage as they get higher level and combats become increasing less dangerous. The two easiest options are:

1) Make your monsters hit harder, and/or...
2) Reduce the PCs HP

It is hard to convince players they should have less HP, so more powerful monsters is usually easier. You don't have to do this for every battle or every monster (you can also use more monsters and environment, hazards, traps to increase the threat).

You can also look at doing an E6 or E10 version to limit power levels as of PCs as you get to higher level. I think I am going to do this (E10) for my next campaign and see how it goes.

 

[Reynard]

I just finished running Sunless Citadel a couple of weeks ago. Final death count was 6 PCs over the course of the adventure. Plus some NPC hirelings.

Once a character is out of apprentice tier, it's rare to see them go down. In my experience, they either have to be surprised or be going into a tough fight very low on resources, which is typically only possible if there's time pressure or incentives (or both).

Mortality is actually only one way to fail though and stakes can still be compelling even if death is not on the line. So if you can manage to set up goals the players and characters care about, then seriously threaten the achievement of those goals, it can be just as good as threatening the PCs' lives from a play experience standpoint. I also like including NPCs in the party that the players find useful or engaging and then threatening them constantly. It creates another resource sink and a sub-goal of keeping them alive and well while dealing with the threats.

There are indeed a lot of ways to make failure matter and keep players invested, but in this case I am specifically looking for holding on to that 1st level feel of impending doom for as long as possible. I don't want to necessarily deny players their characters' cool toys, so i don't want to just be stingy with XP or liberal with level-drain, though. I am considering implementing massive damage, or maybe generally up the amount of creatures that poison or other wise force save or die stuff.

 

[Krachek]

My party level 5 simply met a Dragon CR 6.
Breath weapon was doing 49. Enough to lay down every one.
In fact, first round two down. Scary combat that we finally win.

In another setup our level 11 party get a lot of problems with a simple Behir.
First encounter Behir got the Surprise. Breath. Second round recharge breath and use it again. Bad!
We use wall of force and teleportation circle to get out.
We go back later, scout, find its lair, and the combat was done in three rounds. Easy.

Prepared party will handle monster easily.
Unexpected encounter, which was the case for this dragon and Behir, are much more difficult to handle.
Avoid party do auto-pilot like: Scout, find target, get surprise, repeat. This kind of tactic will produce boring combat.
DM should vary encounters pace, size, terrain, monsters behavior, and all other factors to avoir dull fight.

 

[Satyrn]

1. Bring back level draining.

2. Players will then be fearful of having their levels drained, PLUS you can keep knocking them back to 1 and they can be afraid of that, too.

3. ????

4. Profit!

Now that's sonme good ol' fashion gnomish thinking! Glad to see you're finally embracing the Dark Side.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Stalker0]

Drop hp is a way to do it. Half con bonus to hp per level (for odd cons give +1 hp every other level).

D6=1 hp per level, d8 = 2, etc

Ban the toughness feat.

They will be good and squishy