D&D 5E 5E's "Missed Opportunities?"

[Laurefindel]

Advantage/disadvantage is only equivalent to +5/-5 if the target number you need on the d20 is around 10-11.

The further you get toward the 1 or toward the 20, the less of a bonus it gives. If you need a 19-20 to succeed, advantage only gives you the equivalent of +1. And if you need more than 20 to succeed, advantage won't help you whatsoever, whereas a flat +5 would allow you to roll the equivalent of a 25 on a d20.

Otherwise, I do like backgrounds the way they are, but i do think they could have gone a bit further. Not sure if it is a missed opportunity, but there is room to develop the background aspect further.

Same with inspiration, i think they could have gone further with what benefit inspiration could give, but as it stands it a nice and simple addition to the game. I wish having inspiration could give you something, perhaps an ability relating to your race or background, in addition to spending it to gain advantage on a roll.

Advantage/disadvantage and bounded accuracy are my favourite addition to this edition. That being said, monsters do feel like bags of hp sometimes, and although i don't think it has anything to do with bounded accuracy, I think they could have gone further with small but distinctive monstrous abilities, like what the orcs and goblins have.

I think there could have been more low-magic setting possibilities if some of the core features were set as variants. For what its worth, that's where i think the missed opportunity was.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

4) Advantage/Disadvantage. +5/-5 is too big of a modifier for most conditions. Flanking is lethal against the PCs (so we didn't use it).

I really expected to hate the Dis/Advantage mechanic, since most modifiers would be too small to use it, but I've found that it works well in practice. If you're only making one die roll, then a +2 bonus only has a 10% chance of changing the outcome, which means it's statistically irrelevant.

One of the basic tenets of game design is to not include modifiers that are so small and obscure that they're unlikely to ever change an outcome, over the course of rolls where it's expected to apply. That's why Pathfinder 1E, with its "+1 bonus on Will saves against fear effects", is so widely criticized.

 

[iserith]

I keep hearing this, and I just don't get it. We've used them for 5 years now. We don't forget them, ever. We don't fish for them (unless you call "role playing to your background traits" fishing), but they're quite handy and they come up every game. Some of our best moments of gaming in 5e revolve around inspiration - either gaining it, or more often using it.

Agreed. In last night's game, the four PCs (including me) got and spent Inspiration at least a dozen times between us. In the games I run, it's usually 16 to 20 times per session between the five players. So every 10 to 12 minutes, someone is portraying the character according to a specific characteristic due in no small part to how awesome it is to have advantage in your back pocket when you need it.

 

[iserith]

The only thing I don't like about Inspiration, and the only thing in 5e I houserule, is that Inspiration should allow you to re-roll any d20 roll, not roll with Advantage. The psychological difference is big.

I'm playing in a game right now that uses Inspiration as a salty re-roll and I have to say I don't think it's as good as declaring it before the roll. It's definitely more efficient to use it as a re-roll and arguably more advantageous, but I just prefer it as it was intended. I think it has something to do with the drama surrounding the declaration: The player either wants to do something or avoid something that he or she is now signaling is so important that expending a limited resource is required in his or her eyes. There's a greater build up of drama as a result in my experience, even more so if the player doesn't have Inspiration right now and other players are jumping into give him or her Inspiration to save their butt. A re-roll doesn't have the same kind of punch in my opinion. That's my best explanation for why I prefer it as designed though it's all a matter of taste.

 

[Retreater]

Agreed. In last night's game, the four PCs (including me) got and spent Inspiration at least a dozen times between us. In the games I run, it's usually 16 to 20 times per session between the five players. So every 10 to 12 minutes, someone is portraying the character according to a specific characteristic due in no small part to how awesome it is to have advantage in your back pocket when you need it.

Wow. In my experience it's been: "Hey. It says my character is a hero to the poor. So I gave a kid a CP. Can I have inspiration? So if I throw another CP out the window to the urchin, can I have inspiration on this Stealth check?"

Or it's just been forgotten. I even printed up special rules and maneuvers that you could spend inspiration to use. No one ever used it.

The idea that backgrounds are so tied in with Inspiration kinda drags down the mechanical concept of backgrounds. (Sure, roleplaying is still cool, but you don't really need rules to roleplay.)

 

[Blue]

1. Backgrounds are about half of your skills, and a flavor bonus you cant''get elsewhere. Really, I want to play a criminally minded sorcerer, I can - I can get my contacts and skills and such. A noble? Sure. They allow so much character customization without needing to multiclass.

2. Inspirations is supposed to be given out by the DM. Since you said you ran, I'm having problems that it seems that you're judging a rule because you forgot about it, not on it's own merits. It's one of the new rules introduced in 5e and I see it most often dropped by people who try to play 5e like the earlier editions.

It seemed at least some of your players were interested in trying it out, even if they were "fishing for bonuses in annoying ways". DM recommendation is about once per PC per session, were they asking for it more than that?

3. I hadn't notice that pre-made adventures didn't use Treasure Hordes because I make all my own. That's bad on Wizards. But not actually bad on the core rules if some other product doesn't follow their guidelines. Those of us not running pre-made adventures had it as a tool.

4. Advantage/Disadvantage - as a replacement for all those little bonuses of earlier editions? SO MUCH NICER. And it's only around +/-5 if you're right at the 50% mark. Which isn't where most attacks vs. AC, saves, or skill DCs are.

5. Bounded Accuracy is fantastic. You don't get the +10 or more modifier difference between characters you had in earlier editions, be it for skills, defenses, attack bonus, whatever. Plus you can fight hordes of weak monsters and they are a challenge. You can fight tougher monsters and they are not a snoozefest as you miss all the time.

#1 and #2 are important parts of what allow you to define your character as a person and have mechanical support for it. If that's not a good fit for your table, perhaps either a more tactically minded or a lighter game, then 5e probably isn't the best fit for the feel you want. I'm glad you are moving on and found a system that supports the feel your table is looking for.

 

[Lanefan]

Treasure hordes, or treasure hoards?

 

[Satyrn]

Treasure hordes, or treasure hoards?

When you're murder-hobos looting corpses, there's no difference.

 

[ad_hoc]

Wow. In my experience it's been: "Hey. It says my character is a hero to the poor. So I gave a kid a CP. Can I have inspiration? So if I throw another CP out the window to the urchin, can I have inspiration on this Stealth check?" )

That's just trying to abuse the rules.

It happens regardless of what the rules are. There are always those who do this sort of thing. The fault isn't the system. Just don't play with people like that.

None of the people at my table would think of doing something like that. It has to be a significant thing that comes up during the regular course of play. For example, if the party decides to confront a corrupt burgomaster who is overtaxing their citizens the player may bring up that they are a hero to the poor and gain inspiration.

(Sure, roleplaying is still cool, but you don't really need rules to roleplay.)

Ummm...that is the entire game. It is a roleplaying game. It's true that people do other forms of roleplay, but if you are interested in those and don't think RPGs have value then...why be here?

 

[Retreater]

1. Backgrounds are about half of your skills, and a flavor bonus you cant''get elsewhere. Really, I want to play a criminally minded sorcerer, I can - I can get my contacts and skills and such. A noble? Sure. They allow so much character customization without needing to multiclass.

2. Inspirations is supposed to be given out by the DM. Since you said you ran, I'm having problems that it seems that you're judging a rule because you forgot about it, not on it's own merits. It's one of the new rules introduced in 5e and I see it most often dropped by people who try to play 5e like the earlier editions.

It seemed at least some of your players were interested in trying it out, even if they were "fishing for bonuses in annoying ways". DM recommendation is about once per PC per session, were they asking for it more than that?

3. I hadn't notice that pre-made adventures didn't use Treasure Hordes because I make all my own. That's bad on Wizards. But not actually bad on the core rules if some other product doesn't follow their guidelines. Those of us not running pre-made adventures had it as a tool.

4. Advantage/Disadvantage - as a replacement for all those little bonuses of earlier editions? SO MUCH NICER. And it's only around +/-5 if you're right at the 50% mark. Which isn't where most attacks vs. AC, saves, or skill DCs are.

5. Bounded Accuracy is fantastic. You don't get the +10 or more modifier difference between characters you had in earlier editions, be it for skills, defenses, attack bonus, whatever. Plus you can fight hordes of weak monsters and they are a challenge. You can fight tougher monsters and they are not a snoozefest as you miss all the time.

#1 and #2 are important parts of what allow you to define your character as a person and have mechanical support for it. If that's not a good fit for your table, perhaps either a more tactically minded or a lighter game, then 5e probably isn't the best fit for the feel you want. I'm glad you are moving on and found a system that supports the feel your table is looking for.

1. I would prefer either more mechanical benefit from backgrounds (like the Pathfinder 2nd edition playtest or 4E with background powers), or nothing at all. Basically you get some starting equipment and knick knacks that don't matter, and a couple trained skills. I'd prefer to just give all characters 2 skills of their choice to train. The flaws, etc., are never used because Inspiration is never used. The background features are forgotten because they're seldom able to be used. "Oh, I can stay overnight in a temple for free. I don't have to pay for ship's passage."

2. I tried giving out tokens, special dice, creating special maneuvers to make inspiration more meaningful. Just wasn't used. I'd have to personally tell the player every time they used it. "Do you have an inspiration you want to use?"

5. I was still finding that low level monsters couldn't challenge characters. They'd need something like a 17 to hit and do a paltry amount of damage. Minions handled this so much better in 4E. I ended up porting over the minion rules to 5E just to create my own horde monsters.