What solution for "Cantrips don't feel magical"?

[TheCosmicKid]

Get rid of cantrips. Have a series of 1st-level spells like, eg, wand of firebolts: charges up a wand you touch for 24 hours such that it can shoot 1d10-fire-damage ranged attacks. Give full casters a bonus 1st-level spell slot.

Grognards are happy because magic is no longer "at will", wizards are happy because they don't have to lug around crossbows, everybody wins.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Using mundane solutions also does not make casters feel magical.

YMMV, obviously, but I strongly disagree on this point. Casting spells is not what makes a spellcaster feel magical to me. In my opinion, the magical thing about a spellcaster is that they can cast spells; and that remains true of them, until such time as they run out. A wizard who can cast Fireball feels at least as magical as a wizard who is casting Fireball.

In much the same way, a grenade feels dangerous because it can explode.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The only solution I can think of at the moment is some type of recharge mechanic.

In my homebrew, I have three alternatives to cantrips; or possibly two, depending on how you count it. Each addresses the issue in a different way.

This wizard-equivalent class gets magic-infused weapon strikes. They can mundanely swing their staff, or throw a dart, but it impacts with magical force so as to stay relevant at higher levels. It doesn't feel like at-will magic, because it's fundamentally tied to a mundane action.

The sorcerer-equivalent class gets Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, which basically lets them roll on the Wild Surge table. Rolling doubles on that table allows them to recover a spell slot. It doesn't feel like at-will magic, because magic in D&D is a perfectly controllable science, and this is marginally-controlled chaos.

The warlock-equivalent class can spend an action to reduce the spell slot requirement of the next spell they cast by one level, to a minimum of zero. If they're out of spell slots, then they can still cast Magic Missile, but it will take them two rounds to do it. It doesn't feel like at-will magic, because it isn't available right now; you have to wait around before it becomes available.

 

[Yunru]

Make them more special. Give them all riders or areas of effect and whatnot.

Take Fire Bolt, which of these feels more magical:

Blah blah blah, explodes into a ball of fire when it hits a creature, they take 1d10 fire damage, increasing by 1d10 at blah blah blah

Blah blah blah, explodes into a ball of fire with a 5 feet radius at a point of your choosing. Each creature within the radius must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 1d6 fire damage. The radius increases by 5 feet and the damage increases by 1d6 at blah blah blah

 

[dave2008]

Make them more special. Give them all riders or areas of effect and whatnot.

Take Fire Bolt, which of these feels more magical:

Blah blah blah, explodes into a ball of fire when it hits a creature, they take 1d10 fire damage, increasing by 1d10 at blah blah blah

Blah blah blah, explodes into a ball of fire with a 5 feet radius at a point of your choosing. Each creature within the radius must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 1d6 fire damage. The radius increases by 5 feet and the damage increases by 1d6 at blah blah blah

Maybe I am missing something, but neither of these feel more magical than the other.

 

[Yunru]

Maybe I am missing something, but neither of these feel more magical than the other.

Well that's, like, your opinion man. Which is actually the problem. There 'll neverbe a definitive answer because the problem is entirely personal to those experiencing it.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

In my homebrew, I have three alternatives to cantrips; or possibly two, depending on how you count it. Each addresses the issue in a different way.

I like these, but might tweak them a bit. Thanks for contributing.

 

[Leatherhead]

If "Magical" means "Rare": There isn't anything that can be done about it.

If "Magical" means "Breaks the Normal Rules": Then you might be able to do it. But remember, a functional and believable magic system will always have rules.

If "Magical" means "A bunch of esoteric variables that no mortal mind can accurately keep track of let alone fully comprehend": Then I don't even want to deal with it. This is a game, it has to be playable first and foremost.

 

[NaturalZero]

At-will cantrips in 5e are a continuation of a popular aspect of 4e: everyone that has magic can always use magic, without having to rely on a crossbow when they're all "used up." I played my entire 3.5e career finding ways to have magic all day long, whether it was metamagic cheese (persistent spell, ftw), finding ways to wildshape into non-animal forms and get their abilities (aberration wildshape + Assume Supernatural Ability + Enhance Wildshape), or simply finding all-day spell effects. Having the system just let me make a magic-user at level 1 that gets magic all day without a bunch of books and esoteric optimizing tricks is a huge boon in 5e, IMO.

I remember sitting down at a Pathfinder game sometime after 4e was out. One of the complaints at the table about 4e was that different classes got spells that were too similar to each other. The wizard might get "Fireball," which was a AOE at a distance, while the sorcerer would get something like "Fireblast," which would be a fire AOE with a different rider effects. With this in mind, we started the PF campaign with a bunch of level 6 characters and, when the first fight broke out, 3 different characters, representing 3 different classes, were all casting the exact same buff spells and using the exact same tactics. So, in our 4e game, different classes had different powers that were similar and, in PF, different classes had powers that were literally identical. My problem with magic not feeling special in 5e relates directly to this.

You show up with a 5 man group at a fresh 5e game: Elven bow fighter, tielfing warlock, human wizard, dragonborn sorcerer, halfling cleric. The first time you enter a cave, you realize that most of your party can't see in the dark so ... all 5 characters cast the "light" cantrip. THAT is what stops magic from feeling "magical" in 5e, to me. My problem is that every character gets so, so, so much overlap in what they have access to off of the same list of options. I wish the sorcerer and wizard had different spell lists. I wish the wizard was broken up into around 3 or 4 unique classes with very little spell overlap. I'm tired of seeing parties where the wizard, sorcerer, specialty cleric, eldritch knight, and warlock all cast "fireball" in fights because everyone has casual access to the same stuff. The issue for me isn't how often you can cast a cantrip, its that literally everyone at the table can do the exact same stuff (likely, with the same DC!).

 

[aco175]

I would not mind seeing some 4e powers come back to add some options for casters. Not sure on what to remove or make them feats or such though. I always like things like a mage that pushed the opponent 10ft when hit with their staff, or slowed people.