Converting True Dragons

Cleon

Legend
I'll agree with your suggestions for locate object and go with 200 ft for both radii.

Good-oh!

Updating Pearl the Moon Dragon Working Draft (with Pearl spelled correctly for a change!).

This looks good, including the other (Sp) and (Su) abilities!

I don't have time to add those right now since I'm going out for a few hours. Might add them later today. Or I might not.

I guess spells should be next, but I'm kind of dreading that list. Sorc spells first? Spells per day is 6/9/9/9/8/8/8/8/7/7, I believe.
0th - acid splash, arcane mark, dancing lights, detect magic, mage hand, message, read magic, resistance, touch of fatigue ??

Yup, that's the spells per day I reckon too.

Of those nine choices, I'd opt for arcane mark, detect magic, mage hand, message, read magic, resistance for the zero-level six.
 
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Cleon

Legend
I've updated the Pearl the Moon Dragon Working Draft to include the other (Su) and (Sp) abilities.

I decided to expand the Spider Climb to match the standard spider climb spell rather than only working on stone surfaces like the Copper Dragon version, mainly for simplicity.

If you approve the change, it suggests the Icewalking ability Pearl gets from White Dragons is completely overlapped by its Spider Climb so is a bit redundant. However, Icewalking also provides immunity to the grease effect of Freezing Fog, so it's worth leaving in.
 

Cleon

Legend
I've updated the Pearl the Moon Dragon Working Draft to include the other (Su) and (Sp) abilities.

I decided to expand the Spider Climb to match the standard spider climb spell rather than only working on stone surfaces like the Copper Dragon version, mainly for simplicity.

If you approve the change, it suggests the Icewalking ability Pearl gets from White Dragons is completely overlapped by its Spider Climb so is a bit redundant. However, Icewalking also provides immunity to the grease effect of Freezing Fog, so it's worth leaving in.

We need a duration for the Luck Bonus special ability. The original was 1d3 hours plus 3 hours per age category, but Pearl doesn't have age categories. Maybe or 1d3+48 hours? Or perhaps +42 or +45?
 


freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Lots to answer there...

For the spells, the slash line was spells per day, but I was listing proposed spells known (which should be 9 per the SRD). Are those acceptable? Then we can move to 1st level.

For icewalking, how about we remove it as basically redundant but add the immunity to grease separately?

1d3+48 hrs is fine for the luck bonus, though the randomized part is so small compared to the +48 that it just seems annoyingly fiddly. Would just 48 hrs work?

Hmmm. None of the original versions seem to have magic resistance listed, so we're kind of on our own. I was going to suggest looking at Ahi and Rahab for comparisons, but we didn't give them SR! Should we go back and do that? In any case, great wyrm gold dragons have SR 33, force dragons have 57, and prismatic dragons have 86, though perhaps that's getting beyond where we want to go with CR. If we go by HD for the epic dragons, we're more in the SR 40-55 range. I don't know, maybe SR 45ish?
 

Cleon

Legend
Lots to answer there...

For the spells, the slash line was spells per day, but I was listing proposed spells known (which should be 9 per the SRD). Are those acceptable? Then we can move to 1st level.

Oh dang it, I must have still been thinking Wizard Spell rules.

I'm not in favour of the acid splash and touch of fatigue. How about swapping them?

Maybe for ghost sound and prestidigitation?

For icewalking, how about we remove it as basically redundant but add the immunity to grease separately?

There's no need to do that. The immunity is only to dragon's own freezing fog's SLA's grease effect, not all grease effects.

We only need to change the line "The dragon is immune to the grease effect because of its icewalking ability" to make it "its spider climb ability".

We can also add a line to the Spider Climb ability "This ability also renders Pearl immune to grease effects such as that left by her freezing fog spell-like ability."

Which reminds me, Sometime I should go through the text and replace a bunch of "its" with "her" as Pearl is a lady dragon.

1d3+48 hrs is fine for the luck bonus, though the randomized part is so small compared to the +48 that it just seems annoyingly fiddly. Would just 48 hrs work?

The 1d3 is in the original so I would rather include a dice variable. How about we increase it to 1d12 instead?

Hmmm. None of the original versions seem to have magic resistance listed, so we're kind of on our own.

We should give her an SR comparable to the other Dragon Rulers. We have Bahamut (CR 25, SR 30), Gruaghlothor (CR 25, SR 30), Tiamat (CR 25, SR 30) and Sardior (no CR given, SR 40).

So I guess CR 25 and SR 30 looks appropriate!

I was going to suggest looking at Ahi and Rahab for comparisons, but we didn't give them SR! Should we go back and do that? In any case, great wyrm gold dragons have SR 33, force dragons have 57, and prismatic dragons have 86, though perhaps that's getting beyond where we want to go with CR. If we go by HD for the epic dragons, we're more in the SR 40-55 range. I don't know, maybe SR 45ish?

Oops!

Rahab and Ahi had "Standard" magic resistance in their original AD&D versions, but we should give the upgraded versions Spell Resistance.

A standard SRD Dragon has a Spell Resistance of CR plus 6, which would give the CR 22 Rahab and Ahi SR 28.

However, these are unique dragons so could/might/should have a bit higher SRs.

For example, Sardior's Thanes have SRs of CR +6, +7, +8, +7, +7 and +11, while in the CC conversions we have An-Ur +11, Dhrakoth +12, Fafnir +15, Gaumahavi +6, Medrinia +9, Midgard +14, Mordukhavar +10, Nidhogg +11, Vanathor +11 and Vore Lekiniskiy +18.

So we've got numbers between CR +6 and CR +18 with CR +11 being the most common in the CC conversions.

I'd be OK with that (SR 33) or +10 for SR 32 or even +8 for SR 30.

Spell Resistance 33 or 32 feels more appropriate for Rahab or Ahi, although it does make Pearl's SR feel a little low.

Then, Pearl has that nifty "immunity to spells up to 6th level" thing going on as well.

Still, if you fancied tapping Pearl's Spell Resistance up a bit from the official 3E Dragon Ruler stats' SR 30 standard to, say, SR 36 I would make no great objection.
 


Cleon

Legend
Has anyone ever converted planar dragons yet?

I don't think there are any Planar Dragons that lack official 3.5 stats.

Let's see, there's:

Draconomicon (2003):
Battle Dragon, Blight Dragon, Chaos Dragon, Ethereal Dragon, Oceanus Dragon, Pyroclastic Dragon, Radiant Dragon, Rust Dragon, Shadow Dragon, Styx Dragon and Tarterian Dragon
Dragon #321 (2004): Adamantine Dragon, Arboreal Dragon, Beast Dragon and Concordant Dragon,
Dragon #344 (2006): Astral Dragon, Axial Dragon, Chole Dragon, Elysian Dragon and Gloom Dragon.

Some of the above only appear in 3E, but I don't think there are any AD&D Planar Dragons that lack official upgrades to 3E.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Aren't critters immune to their own abilities by default? But we can always add those lines as you suggest.

1d12+48 hour luck bonus works.

I can go for CR 25, SR 30!

Spells: I could go for ghost touch and prestigiditation, so let's do those.
1st level -- hypnotism, protection from law, ray of enfeeblement, summon monster I, unseen servant ?? (5 spells known)
 

Cleon

Legend
Aren't critters immune to their own abilities by default? But we can always add those lines as you suggest.

If they were, the SRD White Dragon needn't bother having the "The dragon is immune to the grease effect because of its icewalking ability" text.

1d12+48 hour luck bonus works.

I can go for CR 25, SR 30!

Works for me!

Updating the Pearl the Moon Dragon Working Draft.

Spells: I could go for ghost touch and prestigiditation, so let's do those.
1st level -- hypnotism, protection from law, ray of enfeeblement, summon monster I, unseen servant ?? (5 spells known)

Hurr… I'd be inclined to swap summon monster I since it'll be so weak compared to a CR 25 dragon. The hypnotism seems of rather limited utility too.

She's got protection from law as a 3/day SLA so hardly needs it as a sorcerer spell as well.

Let's see, what are its 1st level Domain spells again (remember it can select these as sorcerer spells):

Chaos: protection from law, Destruction: inflict light wounds, Earth: magic stone, Evil: protection from good, Fire: burning hands, Knowledge: detect secret doors, Luck: entropic shield and Trickery: disguise self.

Of those, entropic shield is the standout useful low-level spell.

We could also swap your proposed protection from law for protection from good.

Maybe true strike instead of hypnotism or summon monster I?

That'd make it entropic shield, protection from good, ray of enfeeblement, true strike, unseen servant.
 

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