Rules Light Games: Examples and Definitions

[pemerton]

Demonstrably untrue (at least for Fate). Starting and running longterm games with little to no prep is a common occurrence for Fate players. The Core system is designed for doing just that. However, it does require a group with the right mindset and playgoals to make it work, and its a slightly different mindset from a traditional rpg like D&D. Additionally, I would say that a lot of the rules-light games that I've played or seen do fit this description, but I don't think its an inherent property of being rules-light.

The two RPGs I flagged upthread as rules-light - Prince Valiant and Cthulhu Dark - can be played without significant prep.

The rules for Cthulhu Dark fit on a single A4 sheet. I had printed them out years ago, and brought them along to the session. I read them to the table while we ate lunch. We then played with no prep beyond that.

The rules for Prince Valiant are longer than that. I had read them, and then when I brought them along to the session I talked the players through PC gen. We then started playing - I used scenarios that were published, 1 to 3 pages long, and that I could scan quickly while the players wrote up their PCs/poured drinks etc.

 

[Celebrim]

Not that its a bad definition, but I would say Fate (especially Accelerated) fits that definition.

In a very simple stripped down form, FATE probably is a rules light game. The reason that I don't think it is in practice a rules light game is precisely the way you say it bucks that trend.

There's a ton of additional settings and modulations on the rules...I think this is because Fate has the peculiar option of Extras and is easily modifiable in other ways as well. So, you can play any genre/setting of Fate right out of the box, but if you want a little more suggestion for exactly how to pull something off, you can buy a setting book that has a bunch of "pre-brewed" mechanics in it already.

And all those extensions to the rules are exactly why it doesn't fit the definition I gave. Those extensions add complexity, increase the scope of the game, try to simulate something specific (the genera conventions of a particular setting), and make the more than a single game book. They don't quite make FATE rules heavy, but they keep the game from being rules light.

There is a similar thing with my own homebrew rules light system: SIPS. The standard game of SIPS is about as rules light as an RPG can be, because it was designed to be played by 5 year olds. But, "SIPS for Hogwarts", is rules medium because it's designed to directly simulate the conventions of the Harry Potter universe. Gone is the very simple super-power rules, and in its place is a more complex system of magical mastery. One reason for this is that it isn't all that interesting if every SIPS character has the superpower, "You're a wizard, Harry!", or some variation thereof.

I wouldn't say that supporting long term play is a necessary condition for something to be an RPG.

I never said it was. What I said is that if your game doesn't support long term play, then it limits the ability of your game to be successful. Your game becomes something that groups do as occasional one offs. If your group plays a rules heavy campaign for 20 sessions, and then plays some Indy rules light game for one session, before returning back to the rules heavy game, you're penetration of the market is going to be inherently low.

Nonetheless, I would agree that there is a segment of the role-playing market that revels in its mastery of KOTOTU (Knowledge Of The Otherwise Totally Useless) and that rules light games wont appeal to them because there will not be all those listy things from which they derive their jollies.

While I agree with you, that is both an uncharitable way to describe the problem and only one example of the problem. An RPG which is composed of a collection of different minigames supports inherently multiple aesthetics of play. One of those minigames might be chargen, and a rules heavy game can have complex chargen systems which make for compelling minigames in their own right, often leading to people who enjoy that aesthetic of play, playing that minigame as a separate game in its own right. But a rules light game inherently supports few or even one minigame and thus really is supporting few or even one aesthetic of play. This inherently makes fewer potential players happy, and makes almost all potential players less happy over time. Variaty is the spice of life.

Demonstrably untrue (at least for Fate). Starting and running longterm games with little to no prep is a common occurrence for Fate players.

I'm not going to turn this into a FATE bashing thread. To each thier own. There are a lot of things I admire about the FATE system and its contribution to our knowledge of game design. Let's just leave it at that.

Of course, I've said that I'm not sure I personally count Fate as rules-light, and even in this thread it seems that consensus is that it hovers near the border of light/medium. So perhaps it escapes your concerns by that means.

Yes. Exactly.

Don't get me wrong. I think there is a place for rules light games on the market. There are number that I want to play and I hope some time to get the opportunity to do so. I just don't think that there is ever a way for a rules light game to be successful in the way D&D, VtM, GURPS, Deadlands, and so forth have been successful without evolving to something that isn't a rules light game. Arguably D&D and VtM started out as rules light games (or rules medium) before evolving into rules heavy games in response to their own success and the demand from the players for more rules.

What I'm saying is that if you are planning to print a truly successful 'rules light' game, you probably need to be closer to the 'rules medium' end of the spectrum and leave room for the system to evolve to a more rules heavy system by plugging in additional rules modules.

 

[Tonguez]

In a very simple stripped down form, FATE probably is a rules light game. The reason that I don't think it is in practice a rules light game is precisely the way you say it bucks that trend.

And all those extensions to the rules are exactly why it doesn't fit the definition I gave. Those extensions add complexity, increase the scope of the game, try to simulate something specific (the genera conventions of a particular setting), and make the more than a single game book. They don't quite make FATE rules heavy, but they keep the game from being rules light.

There is a similar thing with my own homebrew rules light system: SIPS. The standard game of SIPS is about as rules light as an RPG can be, because it was designed to be played by 5 year olds. But, "SIPS for Hogwarts", is rules medium because it's designed to directly simulate the conventions of the Harry Potter universe. Gone is the very simple super-power rules, and in its place is a more complex system of magical mastery. One reason for this is that it isn't all that interesting if every SIPS character has the superpower, "You're a wizard, Harry!", or some variation thereof.

Strangely enough this is exactly why I like Fate Accelerated as a Rules Light system - the fact that every character can have the aspect of "You're a Wizard" then use Approaches to be Clever Wizard or a Forceful Wizard or a Stealthy Wizard, add a couple more Aspects (My mother was a giant) and a Stunt (Care of Magical Creatures) and you've got a character. I also really like that theres only one stress track whether the actions you make are Physical, Mental or Social.
For GMs I like the advice that a Scene also as a Character made up of Aspects and its own Stress Track which everyone can use.

Admittedly the drawbacks of the system - and rules light systems in general - is that it requires both Players and GMs to know the Genre/Fiction they are playing well and to have the flair for creating and using Aspects creatively.
In the above example for instance I'd have to accept that most spells are minor jinxes and Fireballs are out (and have major consequences). I'd also have to know that in the Wizard World Giants are stronger than humans, generally Spell Resistant and subject to Prejudice.

 

[Bedrockgames]

That Roboto is hurting my eyes. But anyway...

Just curious: are you trying to decide if you want to market the game as "rules light?" If so, you might compare your game's weight to other games that call themselves such. (Hence the examples request?)

I am intending to do so. I thought of this, but because I get such varied responses from individual players, I really wanted to get a sense from the community, rather than from companies putting 'rules light' on the cover, what their thoughts are.

 

[Bedrockgames]

By the way, [MENTION=85555]Bedrockgames[/MENTION], your OP text was *completely invisible* on the forum skins that use black background. I edited out the color tag that was in your post, which will allow the forum software to use the default color for each skin, so people can read it. I hope that's okay.

This commonly happens when one writes up a piece in a word processor, and then copy & Pastes the text - if you don't remember to paste as text, you can bring along tags for color that are enforced no matter the skin, which sometimes ends up poorly for your post.

Sorry about that. It was pasted because I've been asking this question everywhere. Thanks for making the change.

 

[steenan]

I call a game "rules light" if I can run it for players new to the game and they have all the information they need on their character sheets and single page cheat sheet. No need to browse books during character creation or during play, no need for me to handle the mechanics because it takes too long to understand it.

Fate Core and Fate Accelerated are rules light for me, as are many (but not all) PbtA games.

 

[practicalm]

Two early rules light games, Tunnels and Trolls and The Fantasy Trip (SJ Games is bring it back).
These are both combat focused which make it easier to keep light. Adding other pillars adds more complexity.

Traveller started out pretty rules light and then supplements came.

 

[Bigsta]

I highly recommend checking out OVA (the open versatile anime RPG). While OVA is my favorite rules light game, in the 90s I loved the TSR Marvel superheroes RPG which always felt pretty light.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

I really like Fate Accelerated because it marries a clear mechanic "Use Aspects to Overcome obstacles or Create Advantages" with a free style story building approach. Having replaced Attributes/Skills with Approaches also really helps with getting into character.

Personally, I found "aspects" to be the opposite of clear. After several games, I'm still not sure I know what an aspect really is.

 

[Tonguez]

Personally, I found "aspects" to be the opposite of clear. After several games, I'm still not sure I know what an aspect really is.

I can see how Aspects do take a bit of getting use to, precisely because they are flexible abstractions but that to me is they're charm.
If while playing DnD I told you I was playing a "Gnome Barbarian" who was "out for revenge" then there are certain assumptions you might make about what it means to be a Gnome, what it means to be a Barbarian and what it means to be seeking revenge (and against who?). In DnD the assumptions of Race and Class are codified in the rules, in Fate those aspects are agreed between players and GM and become Character Aspects which can be invoked during play.
(Note I could get creative with the Aspects and say I'm a "raging scion of the mountain pictsies" but thats still gnome barbarian though it might add a few other thematic assumptions.)


I also like that those same abstract qualities can be used in Scenes and invoked in a game. SO when a scene is created I can slap some aspects on it like "dark catacombs beneath the castle: narrow dank corridor, cluttered ground, something lurks there" which can be invoked to affect play.